View Full Version : HIT Journal
Trial Workout.
OHP: 48.5kg - 11.
Deadlift: 95kg - 9.
Dumbbell Bench: 28.5kg - 9.
Back Squat: 85kg - 8. (Poor form again).
One Arm Row: 32.5kg - 10.
Narrow Dip: 2.5kg - 9.
Dumbbell Curl: 15kg - 9.
Calf Raise: 85kg - 13.
Incline Crunch: 0kg - 10.
Not bad for my first go at this. I am pleased with the OHP, but disappointed with everything else. I've lost some strength, but I am expecting rapid gains.
Squat form was poor again. I seem to have "unlearned" how to squat with a narrow stance. I'm just going to widen my stance a little and get on with it.
I'm going to start my four "week" block of HIT on Tuesday. I wont be working in 7 day weeks. I will leave two days between HIT workouts, one of which will be an off-day and one of which will be a cardio day. I don't feel that one day is enough between workouts for proper recovery on this workout.
I've sorted my squat form. I can now start using weights that I am capable of.
I'm looking forward to tomorrow's session. I am feeling confident that I can make good gains with this HIT routine. I have been reading a lot of Mike Mentzer recently and I am somewhat reassured by the fact that there is a clear rationale behind his approach to bodybuilding; something distinctly lacking in other approaches to bodybuilding!
I had good results when i first started trainging with HIT but plateuaed quickly
Mike Mentzers phsyique is still one of best ever
http://www.balance-of-force.de/training/images/mentzer_158.jpg
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mentpic1.jpg
http://www.marshallsontag.com/images/mentzer4.jpg
If you turn out like him mate, I'd die a happy man if I was you.
His thighs are too small compared to his upper body. And that's a horrific tache.
BengDogg
11-04-2005, 19:12
Tache and haircut are bad but that was magnum pi's era,
bunnyluva
11-04-2005, 19:54
Goodluck with it, be sure to take your measurements before you start.
Does HIT mean one set to failure, followed by forced reps and then finally negs? are you planning to pre exhaust too?
phil
Does HIT mean one set to failure, followed by forced reps and then finally negs? are you planning to pre exhaust too?
phil
I will be doing one set to failure per exercise. Nothing more. Then I plan to rest for 2 days while I grow... Hopefully!
The routine you were just doing was a HIT routine!
bunnyluva
11-04-2005, 20:14
I did my reps of five in a rest pause fashion.
plenty of warm ups too.
phil
What exactly are you doing wrong on your squat mate?
Good luck with the journal BTW.
Mark, have you ever read up on Doggcrapp training? I think if you did, then you'd be sold. If you're interested, I could give a shit load of links to have a read through.
PikeKing
12-04-2005, 14:24
ah DC Training, we definately need someone here to try that out and mark I reckon you're the man
ah DC Training, we definately need someone here to try that out and mark I reckon you're the man
Already on it PK - I'm being trained online by the man himself, Dante aka Doggcrapp - had my first workout under his guidance yesterday.
ah DC Training, we definately need someone here to try that out and mark I reckon you're the man
I've got no idea what it is! Anyway, I have a good feeling about HIT. If Mentzer is correct, I should make progress on each exercise every session. That is an exciting prospect for me at the moment, since recently I have made poor progress all round - nowhere near progress every session.
GoldenArrow
12-04-2005, 14:54
Mentzer isn't correct.
PikeKing
12-04-2005, 14:56
Already on it PK - I'm being trained online by the man himself, Dante aka Doggcrapp - had my first workout under his guidance yesterday.
AP start a journal on here mate, I'm very interested in your progress...
Mentzer isn't correct.
Why?
EDIT: I don't want an argument about HIT. I'm trying it because I have read what Mentzer has said and I feel it makes sense. He presents a clear rationale for doing 1 set to failure, whereas other approaches do not explain why you should do 3x10, 10x3, 5x5, 3x5, 3x8, 3x3 and so on.
GoldenArrow
12-04-2005, 15:18
Because his theories are just that, theories.
see http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=6685&st=0
AP start a journal on here mate, I'm very interested in your progress...
As much as I'd love to, the journal wouldn't contain hardly any info, as everything training/diet related etc. has to stay between myself and Dante. But I'll gladly keep you all updated on my gains from month to month etc.
And if anyone has any questions on DC, I'll gladly answer them. In fact, I'll email the big guy, and get his permission to post some of his stuff on here if that's ok so I don't have to put loads of links to other sites.
P.s. Sorry Mark for hi-jacking your journal!! :confused:
Mark, that link Alex gave you is the one I was about to.
Look at Mentzers arms compaed to his thighs, calves, neck and bone structure. That physique is the result of AAS use, lots of quality food and not much else.
There are billions of explanations as to why linear progresion/periodised training owns the shit out of HIT. Elitefts.com has probably 200 articles which should help you.
Mentzer was a crack-pot who built his physique using volume training, and then came up with some stupid, strange ideas to try and get famous from it and make his name in history because he couldn't make it for his physique
Bad to speak ill of the dead, but his methods are pants
Also read the articles I told you to read on t-nation (See the thread you posted in the bodybuilding section)
I'd just like to add that 4 weeks is a very little period of time, and it's a great idea to try HIT to see if it works or not...but personally, I think mentzer was a flange muffin
Agree. If you reda Arnolds books he repeatedly states that Powerlifting and Oly. lifting is wher all the great champions ahve there foundations. Columbo, Closeman, Arnold, Oliva, Dorian etc etc.
In 'The Education of a Bodybuilder' there are pics of Arnold as a 16y/o Oly. lifter and as a 19y/o Mr Universe (having only done BB style training for 18 months prior to that competition, and win).
All the way through the book his emphasis is on volume, and load. And he is not ecactly known for his strength oriented routines now is he?
Also read the articles I told you to read on t-nation (See the thread you posted in the bodybuilding section)
I'd just like to add that 4 weeks is a very little period of time, and it's a great idea to try HIT to see if it works or not...but personally, I think mentzer was a flange muffin
I read those articles. I also read HIT articles. I chose HIT. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. There are plenty of bad routines. If it doesn't work I will add it to that long list!
That's it mate, give it your best shot.
However, having said that, I don't like Mentzers routines, although many of his theories (such as emphasis on progressive load) I do agree on.
I read those articles. I also read HIT articles. I chose HIT. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. There are plenty of bad routines. If it doesn't work I will add it to that long list!
:023:
good luck on your informed decision
look forward to your progress
Day 1: HIT Session 1.
OHP: 50kg - 11.
Deadlift: 97.5kg - 9.
Dumbbell Bench: 28.5kg - 10.
Back Squat: 92.5kg - 11.
One Arm Row: 33.5kg - 11.
Tricep Dips: 5kg - 9.
Curls: 15.5kg -9.
Mods, can you change the title of this journal to 'HIT Journal'? After examining the progress (or lack of progress..) I made in my four weeks of high volume training, I very much doubt that I will go back to that style of training! I've done high volume time and time again, and never make progress, yet for some reason I always end up giving it another chance - hoping that it might start to work! If HIT fails, I will just have to do a powerlifting routine!
Remember, diet plays a HUGE part in any gains you make...if you're trying to lose fat, you won't gain mass
I'm not so concerned with losing fat now. I went from 13 stone 5 to 13 stone 1 over the last four weeks. I'm not to sure whether that is fat loss or muscle loss, but I don't want to lose more mass. I will still be doing 3 cardio sessions per week, purely for health reasons.
I have been reading more on HIT and have decided to perform the full-body workout twice per week only. I will do abs and calves once per week only, on a cardio day.
PikeKing
13-04-2005, 00:29
I will just have to do a powerlifting routine!
say it aint so!
say it aint so!
If all else fails... !
Day 2:
Off.
Day 3:
Cardio.
Day 4: HIT Session 2.
OHP: 52kg - 11.
Deadlift: 100kg - 7.
Dumbbell Bench: 30kg - 9.
Back Squat: 97.5kg - 8.
One Arm Row: 35kg - 11.
Narrow Dips: 6.25kg - 10.
Dumbbell Curl: 16kg - 8.
Excellent. If I can keep this rate of progress up for at least four weeks, my lifts were be very much improved.
Cool. Progress is always good. Well done :038:
Why 4 only weeks? When you say stuff like that, it sounds like you're resigned to not getting any good results.
Why 4 only weeks? When you say stuff like that, it sounds like you're resigned to not getting any good results.
That is not how I feel. I actually do feel that I can maintain this rate of progress if my training and diet is accurate. The idea with HIT is that progress should be made each and every session. To achieve this I must put 100% in to the workouts, and 100% into eating the right foods in sufficient quantities to recover between workouts. I have done this for the last week, and the gains I have made in strength far exceed my usual rate of progress. Although I am confident, I am not going to be overly optimistic at this stage.
The only reason I mentioned "four weeks" is because I believe that in four weeks time I can massively improve my lifts. If I make good progress, I will continue with HIT.
Day 6:
Decline Crunch: 5kg - 8.
Cardio: Rowing. 20 minutes.
Day 7:
Off.
Performing the crunches on a different day to the full body session was a bad idea. My abs will not have enough time to recover and grow stronger before they are hit again with squats and deadlifts tomorrow. I will do them at the end of a full body session; probably once per week.
Day 8: HIT Session 3.
OHP: 54.5 - 9.
Deadlift: 100kg - 8.
Dumbbell Bench: 31kg - 8.
Back Squat: 100kg - 7.
One Arm Row: 37kg - 8.
Narrow Dip: 7.5kg - 9.
Dumbbell Curl: 16kg - 9.
Day's 10 + 11:
Off.
Day 12: HIT Session 4.
OHP: 55kg - 9.
Deadlift: 102.5kg - 8.
Dumbbell Bench: 31kg - 9.
Back Squat: 100kg - 8.
One Arm Row: 38.5kg - 8.
Tricep Dip: 8.5kg - 9.
Dumbbell Curl: 16.5kg - 9.
PikeKing
23-04-2005, 20:53
Day's 10 + 11:
Off.
Day 12: HIT Session 4.
OHP: 55kg - 9.
Deadlift: 102.5kg - 8.
Dumbbell Bench: 31kg - 9.
Back Squat: 100kg - 8.
One Arm Row: 38.5kg - 8.
Tricep Dip: 8.5kg - 9.
Dumbbell Curl: 16.5kg - 9.
I'm curious how you've come up with the exercise ordering?
thinking about how HIT is meant to work i would order the exercises differently, maybe even choose different exercise as they give more bang for their buck.
DL, SQ, OHP cant argue, but why OHP 1st?
Tricep dips? why not full on dips? then you can use more weight, resulting in working the triceps as well as the chest harder, i hate that whole tricep dip thing.
i would probably have pullups over rows in this routine also.
not slating you mark, at all, just interested how u got here
I'm curious how you've come up with the exercise ordering?
DL, SQ, OHP cant argue, but why OHP 1st?
Tricep dips? why not full on dips? then you can use more weight, resulting in working the triceps as well as the chest harder, i hate that whole tricep dip thing.
i would probably have pullups over rows in this routine also.
I think the exercise order works well.
I always have done OHP before deadlifts. Quite a few people prefer doing OHP first.
I do tricep dips rather than wider grip dips because dumbbell bench is my chest exercise. I expect that in the future I will need to drop one of the two in order to continue making progress, perhaps dropping both and replacing them with one set of dips. At this stage though it seems to be working well.
I was considering pull ups as an alternative to rows in the future. I like the rows at the moment though. I have changed my exercise selection too frequently in the past. I need to stick to this and focus on progressing from one session to the next. Once I have made some decent progress, I will consider switching one or two exercises, but only if the situation demands it.
Days 13, 14 and 15:
Off. Should have done cardio one one or two of these days, but I've been too busy watching snooker!
Day 16:
OHP: 56kg - 9.
Deadlift: 105kg - 7.
Dumbbell Bench: 31.5kg - 9.
Squat: 102kg - 6.
One Arm Row: 39kg - 9.
Tricep Dip: 10kg - 10.
Dumbbell Curl: 17kg - 9.
An excellent workout on the whole. My gains are coming very quickly on OHP, one arm row, dumbbell bench, tricep dip, and dumbbell curl. Comparing today's workout to my trial session a few weeks ago makes clear that progress is very good.
However, I didn't get the amount of reps I should have done on squats today. I increased by 2kg, but got only 6 reps. I should have at least got 7 reps. I have therefore decided to perform squats every other workout, leaving around 8-9 days between squatting.
What about a light day of squatting?
you dont need 9 days rest between squats
im squatting heavy twice in 8 days
BengDogg
27-04-2005, 21:02
you dont need 9 days rest between squats
im squatting heavy twice in 8 days
Same here, you want my take on it, squat first and then you wont be shaged o9ut when it comesto the good stuff
BengDogg
27-04-2005, 21:03
Days 13, 14 and 15:
Off. Should have done cardio one one or two of these days, but I've been too busy watching snooker!
Day 16:
OHP: 56kg - 9.
Deadlift: 105kg - 7.
Dumbbell Bench: 31.5kg - 9.
Squat: 102kg - 6.
One Arm Row: 39kg - 9.
Tricep Dip: 10kg - 10.
Dumbbell Curl: 17kg - 9.
An excellent workout on the whole. My gains are coming very quickly on OHP, one arm row, dumbbell bench, tricep dip, and dumbbell curl. Comparing today's workout to my trial session a few weeks ago makes clear that progress is very good.
However, I didn't get the amount of reps I should have done on squats today. I increased by 2kg, but got only 6 reps. I should have at least got 7 reps. I have therefore decided to perform squats every other workout, leaving around 8-9 days between squatting.
Re the reps are they literally 9 reps ohp banged out in 1 set or is there3 rest and pauses in any of it?
Re the reps are they literally 9 reps ohp banged out in 1 set or is there3 rest and pauses in any of it?
I don't do rest pause. I do my reps as I would in any other set.
The only exercise where I take slightly longer between reps is squats, because I like to take a deep breath before I descend.
you dont need 9 days rest between squats
im squatting heavy twice in 8 days
Squatting heavy twice in 8 days is fine, but there is a massive difference between squatting heavy and squatting heavy to failure. Squatting to failure is so much more demanding than just squatting 'heavy', and so much more demanding than lifting to failure on any other exercise. The level of exertion required is truly immense. Every other exercise I do is a walk in the park compared to squatting.
lol
i squat ME (which is failure) once
and then i do 20 rep squats once
recovery isnt a problem
I've noticed a definite change in my physique since starting HIT. My shoulders and arms in particular seem to have improved a lot.
I even have some new stretch marks across my front and rear delts, and biceps. I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing! :017:
PikeKing
27-04-2005, 21:59
Squatting heavy twice in 8 days is fine, but there is a massive difference between squatting heavy and squatting heavy to failure. Squatting to failure is so much more demanding than just squatting 'heavy', and so much more demanding than lifting to failure on any other exercise. The level of exertion required is truly immense. Every other exercise I do is a walk in the park compared to squatting.
do you think the 3 exercises after the squatting to failure suffer much because you're knackered?
lol
i squat ME (which is failure) once
and then i do 20 rep squats once
recovery isnt a problem
I wouldn't ever do that. If you want to do that, that is your choice.
do you think the 3 exercises after the squatting to failure suffer much because you're knackered?
I don't think they do suffer. I'm progressing very well on them. Here is a comparison of those three exercises in my first workout to this workout:
One Arm Row: 32.5kg - 10. Now: 39kg - 9.
Tricep Dip: 2.5kg - 9. Now: 10kg - 10.
Dumbbell Curl: 15kg - 9. Now: 17kg - 9.
EDIT: Bear in mind that there is about 18 days between the two.
I wouldn't ever do that. If you want to do that, that is your choice.
You're seriously deluded if you think that you can only go to failure once every 8-9 days on squats or heavy leg movements. Just look at all the people that do Doggcrapp, 20 rep squat routines and such like. That is my main gripe with HIT--you're cheating yourself out of valuable growth solely on the grounds of theoretical pseudobabble. Look around you--are there a lot of people successfully squatting frequently? Yes. What does that tell you?...
You're seriously deluded if you think that you can only go to failure once every 8-9 days on squats or heavy leg movements.That is my main gripe with HIT--you're cheating yourself out of valuable growth solely on the grounds of theoretical pseudobabble. Look around you--are there a lot of people successfully squatting frequently? Yes. What does that tell you?...
The fact that I failed to progress, and arguably retrogressed, on squats since the last session, despite progressing on every other exercise, suggests that I am squatting too frequently.
I'm not going to squat frequently for the sake of it.
The fact that I failed to progress, and arguably retrogressed, on squats since the last session, despite progressing on every other exercise, suggests that I am squatting too frequently.
... or youre not doing it frequently enough, or youre not eating right, or you might not have had as much sleep/rest as last time, or you might have done some labour that day, etc. etc.
There are just far too many variables to expect consistent progress every week. Yes HIT might tell you what to expect but they cannot outline every aspect of your life for you, which all can have a positive or negative effect in the gym.
I would not remedy my routine based on a diagnosis of one weeks performance. I would look over at least three weeks to get an accurate picture of whats going wrong, and then adjust accordingly.
Good luck.
The fact that I failed to progress, and arguably retrogressed, on squats since the last session, despite progressing on every other exercise, suggests that I am squatting too frequently.
Maybe you've reached your genetic potential?
ian thats just plain nasty.
Good post by Brett there. He hit the nail on the head there.
Maybe you've reached your genetic potential?
Maybe. I best start squatting every two hours to exceed my potential. :016:
The fact that I failed to progress, and arguably retrogressed, on squats since the last session, despite progressing on every other exercise, suggests that I am squatting too frequently.
I'm not going to squat frequently for the sake of it.
You sound just like a Mike Mentzer textbook.
I wouldn't ever do that. If you want to do that, that is your choice.
i know, you wouldnt think of doing something that WORKS
Maybe. I best start squatting every two hours to exceed my potential. :016:
have you seen gav's journal?
Maybe. I best start squatting every two hours to exceed my potential. :016:
It'd probably serve you better than squatting once every 7 weeks :023: :045:
i know, you wouldnt think of doing something that WORKS
Don't be a plonker, mate. HIT is working very well. Training is about results, not how frequently you attend the gym.
I think many people dislike HIT because it doesn't give licence to spend every day in the gym. Perhaps you are right to question HIT principles, but maybe you should also question the principles of other routines. For example, why do other routines advocate multiple sets? Why, precisely, is it 5x5? Is 5x5 superior to 3x5? Why three days per week? How long, exactly, does it take to recover from 3x5? 3x10? 4x8? How will the number of exercises affect recovery? Are three days better than four? Is a five day plan best? What is the optimum rest interval between sets? How should reps be performed? etc, etc.
There are so many questions that go unanswered with most routines.
ian thats just plain nasty.
I'm sorry... Couldn't resist.
Seriously though - Almost everybody else on the board is making progress squatting in the range of twice per week. You're regressing. Go figure.
I'm sorry... Couldn't resist.
Seriously though - Almost everybody else on the board is making progress squatting in the range of twice per week. You're regressing. Go figure.
That maybe so, but not every one else squats twice per week and lifts to failure on six other compound exercises.
PikeKing
28-04-2005, 10:42
Don't be a plonker, mate. HIT is working very well. Training is about results, not how frequently you attend the gym.
I think many people dislike HIT because it doesn't give licence to spend every day in the gym. Perhaps you are right to question HIT principles, but maybe you should also question the principles of other routines. For example, why do other routines advocate multiple sets? Why, precisely, is it 5x5? Is 5x5 superior to 3x5? Why three days per week? How long, exactly, does it take to recover from 3x5? 3x10? 4x8? How will the number of exercises affect recovery? Are three days better than four? Is a five day plan best? What is the optimum rest interval between sets? How should reps be performed? etc, etc.
There are so many questions that go unanswered with most routines.
there is an answer, it is there is no answer, to make continuous progress you need to mix things up with different routines, sets, reps, tempos, rest etc... oh and not do HIT
I havent got involved in this before Mark but the whole time you have been on IC you have been complaining about lack of progress, you'll change your routine, for 3-4 weeks you are happy then you go and change it all again. Stick to a 'good' proven routine, for long enough, get everything else in place and stop listening to and reading bullshit advice and theories and you will make progress.
Everyone else, please lets leave Mark to his HIT. His journal is not the place to slag him off due to his choices. He'll come round eventually when he realises hes gained no mass.
Don't be a plonker, mate. HIT is working very well. Training is about results, not how frequently you attend the gym.
I think many people dislike HIT because it doesn't give licence to spend every day in the gym. Perhaps you are right to question HIT principles, but maybe you should also question the principles of other routines. For example, why do other routines advocate multiple sets? Why, precisely, is it 5x5? Is 5x5 superior to 3x5? Why three days per week? How long, exactly, does it take to recover from 3x5? 3x10? 4x8? How will the number of exercises affect recovery? Are three days better than four? Is a five day plan best? What is the optimum rest interval between sets? How should reps be performed? etc, etc.
There are so many questions that go unanswered with most routines.
You sound just like a Mike Mentzer textbook.
That maybe so, but not every one else squats twice per week and lifts to failure on six other compound exercises.
Don't lift to failure then on six other compound exercises then...
Use fewer than six other exercises and don't go to failure.
Don't be a plonker, mate. HIT is working very well. Training is about results, not how frequently you attend the gym.
I think many people dislike HIT because it doesn't give licence to spend every day in the gym. Perhaps you are right to question HIT principles, but maybe you should also question the principles of other routines. For example, why do other routines advocate multiple sets? Why, precisely, is it 5x5? Is 5x5 superior to 3x5? Why three days per week? How long, exactly, does it take to recover from 3x5? 3x10? 4x8? How will the number of exercises affect recovery? Are three days better than four? Is a five day plan best? What is the optimum rest interval between sets? How should reps be performed? etc, etc.
There are so many questions that go unanswered with most routines.
And how are all these questions magically answered on HIT?
Most people who have made the progress I have over the last three weeks would be praised, but because I've done it through HIT I get abused.
Don't be a plonker, mate. HIT is working very well. Training is about results, not how frequently you attend the gym.
I think many people dislike HIT because it doesn't give licence to spend every day in the gym. Perhaps you are right to question HIT principles, but maybe you should also question the principles of other routines. For example, why do other routines advocate multiple sets? Why, precisely, is it 5x5? Is 5x5 superior to 3x5? Why three days per week? How long, exactly, does it take to recover from 3x5? 3x10? 4x8? How will the number of exercises affect recovery? Are three days better than four? Is a five day plan best? What is the optimum rest interval between sets? How should reps be performed? etc, etc.
There are so many questions that go unanswered with most routines.
I haven't once questionned HIT so stop getting shitty with me. I've actually read the threads with interest because I know (or didnt know) anything about it.
I just questionned dropping squatting to once every 9 days. I think you should keep going with it for a couple of more sessions yet and if you do decide to drop it to once every other workout i think you should add a different exercise in its place e.g. front squats.
Black Knight
28-04-2005, 10:58
Most people who have made the progress I have over the last three weeks would be praised, but because I've done it through HIT I get abused.
I agree, Mark. You've achieved demonstrably good gains-well done!
Surely if these journal pages teach us anything its that different approaches suit different people at different times.
Im now very open minded about training approaches; I know what works for me but I dont feel the need to criticise others simply because theyr'e at odds with me.
if you call progess squatting 100kg for 8 reps once every nine days by a guy that has trained for years and has some seriously strong people (gav and others) goving him constructive criticism then thats fine. personally, i woudl call that shit.
Most people who have made the progress I have over the last three weeks would be praised, but because I've done it through HIT I get abused.
In all fairness, a vast majority of the abuse has been directed at HIT and Mike Menzer rather than yourself which, if anything, is because nobody on the board wants to see anybody waste their time with such a patently terrible protocol. We all love you really.
Also, in truth, the progress you're so happy about has been limited at best. From your own post:
One Arm Row: 32.5kg - 10. Now: 39kg - 9.
Tricep Dip: 2.5kg - 9. Now: 10kg - 10.
Dumbbell Curl: 15kg - 9. Now: 17kg - 9.
Well that's 2kg on your bicep curl, 7.5kg on your dip and less than 6.5kg on your row in just under three weeks into a new training cycle. That would be awesome progress if you were an experienced lifter shifting huawge weights, but you're not. You should be absolutely piling on the plates at your level of training experience.
FAO: Everyone else.
Keep the language clean and the criticism, if any, constructive and directed at Mark's training. Insulting somebody for doing something different is not the same as offering advice to somebody who, you feel, could improve their training.
FAO: Everyone else.
Keep the language clean and the criticism, if any, constructive and directed at Mark's training. Insulting somebody for doing something different is not the same as offering advice to somebody who, you feel, could improve their training.
FAO: I am totally with you and will not gratuitously insult anybody for their choice of training protocol, all thanks to you omnicogent guidance and excellent example.
I want your babies.
.
Also, in truth, the progress you're so happy about has been limited at best. From your own post:
One Arm Row: 32.5kg - 10. Now: 39kg - 9.
Tricep Dip: 2.5kg - 9. Now: 10kg - 10.
Dumbbell Curl: 15kg - 9. Now: 17kg - 9.
You are being ridiculous. That is good progress. Think about the long term rather than the short term. It's not about how much you add per week, it is about how much you are adding over months and years. Come back next year and tell me how shit HIT and how poor my progress is.
FAO: Everyone else.
Keep the language clean and the criticism, if any, constructive and directed at Mark's training. Insulting somebody for doing something different is not the same as offering advice to somebody who, you feel, could improve their training.
But it's alright for Mark to insult me yeah?
PikeKing
28-04-2005, 11:17
But it's alright for Mark to insult me yeah?
yes :016:
This is getting petty now. This is a journal, not a HIT debate. If anyone wants a HIT debate, please start a thread in the bodybuilding section! :038:
bunnyluva
28-04-2005, 11:37
Hi Mark,
I've read some of Mentzers articles about HIT, iirc he follow Arthur Jones' theories. Jones developed the Nautilus machines and pushed pre-exhaust HIT.
His nautilus leg press was a monster of a machine (i've seen and used it). You sat in and performed one set of thigh extension, and staying in the same seat, immediately perfromed 1 set of leg presses.
pre-exhausting each major group by using using an isolation exercise, immediately follow by a compound movement.
chest- flyes, then press (jones favoured the decline press)
shoulders - lat raises, the o/h press
thighs - leg curls, then legpress or squat
back - pullover then pull downs.
he also had an isolation tricep press and preacher machine.
Just some food for thought for increasing intensity.
Phil
You are being ridiculous. That is good progress. Think about the long term rather than the short term. It's not about how much you add per week, it is about how much you are adding over months and years. Come back next year and tell me how shit HIT and how poor my progress is.
Of course.
2kg in three weeks on your curl (for example) isn't great.
2kg every three weeks for a year on your curl would be pretty damn good and would have you curling nearly 50kg on each arm.
...but you haven't put 2kg on your curl every three weeks for a year yet. You can't look at the long term if you haven't been on the routine for a long term. Right now, you can only look at your short-term progress, which hasn't been great.
I see I'm pissing you off, so this will be my last post here.
You're not pissing me off SoG. You are welcome to express your opinion on my rate of progress. I personally think that I am making very good progress in strength on HIT. People can slag off HIT and Mentzer as much as they like, but even three weeks of using his methods tells me that it is far superior to the mindless volume approach I was using previously. I am very confident that I can continue to make good progress on HIT.
BengDogg
28-04-2005, 21:17
If its workin for you Mark, then stick with it and i hope you do well, one thing i would suggest is watch your body fat as ive heard the odd report that some people gain a fair bit as there are less sessions in the gym, but i notice you have cardio included so i take it you have your bases covered.
If its workin for you Mark, then stick with it and i hope you do well, one thing i would suggest is watch your body fat as ive heard the odd report that some people gain a fair bit as there are less sessions in the gym, but i notice you have cardio included so i take it you have your bases covered.
Thanks for the support!
I am a little concerned about gaining fat on this routine. I should be doing cardio a few times per week, but I have let it slip recently! I am going to start using my local gym for cardio so that I have some variety... My rowing machine at home is good, but boring!
I've been thinking about what was said about me deciding to squat every 8 days. I am going to have another go in my next session to see what happens. If I fail to improve on last sessions effort (102kg for 6) I will have to cut the frequency, and perhaps alternate back squatting with a less taxing leg exercise.(e.g. back squats in one workout, front squats in the next). I'll see what happens next time - hopefully I will knock out 8 reps.
BengDogg
29-04-2005, 20:33
back squat/front squat is a good way to work squats imo, and certainly better than not squatting.
Days 17, 18 & 19: Off. Should have done cardio. I really need to get back into the habit of doing cardio again, but I have lots of coursework and exam preparation for uni.
Day 20:
OHP: 57.5kg - 8.
Deadlift: 105kg - 8.
Dumbbell Press: 32.5kg - 8.
Squat: 102kg - Disaster.
One Arm Row: 40kg - 8.
Parallel Bar Tricep Dip: 12.5kg - 8.
Dumbbell Curls: 17.5kg - 8.
JumboTron9million
02-05-2005, 14:08
What was the disaster on squats mate ? You're not hurt are you ?
JBT
What was the disaster on squats mate ? You're not hurt are you ?
JBT
No. Almost though. I definitely had the right amount of weight on the bar, but when I unracked it it felt unusually heavy. The first rep felt really hard, and on the second rep my form collapsed and I got pushed forwards. Everything else in the workout was fine, but for the second session in a row I have lost strength on my squat.
Days 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 & 36
Off.
:D :D
Days 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 & 36
Off.
:D :D
;)
I train every four days!
bunnyluva
03-05-2005, 17:56
What warmups are you doing for the squats? Are you jumping straight in with your top poundage?
Phil
Day 21: Off.
Day 22:
Decline crunches: 7.5kg - 9.
Woohoo! I haven't crunched in well over a week, and yet I added 2.5kg and got an extra rep more than last time!
What warmups are you doing for the squats? Are you jumping straight in with your top poundage?
Phil
I do some triples, doubles, singles etc, but nothing structured. I think I need to come up with a structured warm up. Any ideas?
bunnyluva
03-05-2005, 18:29
What does HIT recommend for warming up?
I wouldn't do triple for warm ups and up the reps for a final set. I'd warmup with the same number of reps that im gonna be using for a final set.
Phil
What does HIT recommend for warming up?
I wouldn't do triple for warm ups and up the reps for a final set. I'd warmup with the same number of reps that im gonna be using for a final set.
Phil
Your top range set is 100kgish for 8 reps yeah? Well, if I was you, I'd go for 60kgs for 8, 80kgs for 8, then you should be good to go.
JumboTron9million
03-05-2005, 19:51
Light general warmup, jogging or whatever.
Bar x 10-20
40x5
60 x 3
80 x 1-3
90 x 1-2
100 x 8.
Light general warmup, jogging or whatever.
Bar x 10-20
40x5
60 x 3
80 x 1-3
90 x 1-2
100 x 8.
Yep.
Day 23.
OHP: 58.5kg - 8.
Deadlift: 106kg - 8.
Dumbbell Bench: 33kg - 8.
One Arm Row: 40.5kg - 8.
Tricep Dip: 13.5kg - 7.
Dumbbell Curl: 17.5kg - 8.
I did this workout a day earlier than scheduled. It was good. More progress on the first four exercises. I missed a rep on the dips, as for some reason I was going too deep on the last few reps. The curls were a little easier this week than last.
Why didn't you increase weight on the curls,you got that last week didn't you?
Why didn't you increase weight on the curls,you got that last week didn't you?
I was aiming for 9 reps. I didn't get it, but the 8 reps with 17.5kg was less of a struggle this time than it was last time. I'm happy with that. I can't expect to add 0.5kg every 4 days to my curl.... If I did I'd be curling 60kg dumbbells within a year - and that just isn't going to happen! :o
JumboTron9million
05-05-2005, 12:37
I was aiming for 9 reps. I didn't get it, but the 8 reps with 17.5kg was less of a struggle this time than it was last time. I'm happy with that. I can't expect to add 0.5kg every 4 days to my curl.... If I did I'd be curling 60kg dumbbells within a year - and that just isn't going to happen! :o
Why isn't it going to happen ?
Why isn't it going to happen ?
I just don't think it is possible to progress that quickly without steroids and without a mad bulking diet. My short-term goal, as far as dumbbell curls are concerned, is 20kg for 8. I hope to achieve that within the next few weeks.
ice_mach
05-05-2005, 13:42
why not mate, look at these kids all high school kids aged 15-18 and they're lifting some heavy ass weights in a relatively short period of time, pay special attention to dan larkin who is 16 and is lifting over 280kgs in the trap bar deadlift
http://www.defrancostraining.com/pics/pics_hs-male.htm
I don't know why my post was deleted TBH.
I honestly think you dont train hard enough, and that is my opinion, which is half the point of journals is it not? I didn't put it across in an insultive way either.
I don't know why my post was deleted TBH.
I honestly think you dont train hard enough, and that is my opinion, which is half the point of journals is it not? I didn't put it across in an insultive way either.
Ok, fair enough.
In what way am I not training "hard" enough? How do you define "hard"?
OK, 'hard' may not have been the correct word, as you do train to failure.
What I do mean is you don't put enough in, IMO every 4 days just doesn't cut it. I think you could get much more out of a 3 day split if you stick to it for long enough, eat enough and get all the other factors in line.
OK, 'hard' may not have been the correct word, as you do train to failure.
What I do mean is you don't put enough in, IMO every 4 days just doesn't cut it. I think you could get much more out of a 3 day split if you stick to it for long enough, eat enough and get all the other factors in line.
I train infrequently because I'm doing HIT. Training the whole body every four days is a greater frequency of training than training with a three day split, i.e. every muscle gets worked directly with greater frequency on this HIT routine than it would on a three-day split. For example, my chest is currently trained every four days, whereas it would be trained every seven days on a three day split.
Hmm good point.
Even still, I would try to up the frequency as much as possible, atleast every 3 days if you can handle it.
Hmm good point.
Even still, I would try to up the frequency as much as possible, atleast every 3 days if you can handle it.
I understand the point you are making, and ideally I would repeat the workout every day (if I could fully adapt in such a short time). But, sufficient time must be allowed for recovery, otherwise progress will be hindered. In my opinion, where frequency is concerned, it is better to err on the side of caution and train more infrequently than it is to train too frequently. Whether I train every three days or every 4 days doesn't really matter - I get around 90 opportunties to progress each year by training every 4 days. That is alot!
Whether I train every three days or every 4 days doesn't really matter - I get around 90 opportunties to progress each year by training every 4 days. That is alot!
Spot on Marko. Us Doggcrappers train each bodypart 3 times every 9 days, which equals a ****load more growth phases a year than volume training nerds, who get 52 growth phases a year per bodypart if they are lucky (one a week), and that is one of the key logistics of the DC system - volume is dropped, intensity is upped, as is frequency. The amount of growth phases that DC trainers get (along with the absolutely brutal training and other key factors) is one of the key factors in why growth comes so quickly.
Mark, the only thing I would say to you is that you should rotate a number of exercises, otherwise I think you will quickly stagnate on the ones you are doing. Also, splitting the workout up into 2 halves, but working out more frequently (M,W,F) is another improvement you could make. You are along the right lines here, but could make things much better for growth and strength improvements.
Five Magics,
I have had alot of experience with HIT, alot good and alot bad. I started off with Mentzers 3 day split in Heavy Duty 1 to start, made good gains and then went to reducing days, sets, exercises etc. However, when I did this, the results slowed down.
Also another word of note, you might get chubby on Hit, I've never been known to be the thinnest or lightest of people, but HIT (& carling if im honest) made me abit of a fatty, something which I havent had with other routines.
I am not anti-HIT totally, I no longer agree with alot of Mentzers ideas but I have experience that it has worked, but the Heavy Duty 1 routine that was the most successful I used is far from your routine. Don't keep cutting volume, thats the mistake I made and it was the wrong thing to do, I should of ate more and trained cleverer
P.s. have you seen his video, the guy had aan amazing phsyique and some good ideas but by the time of the video he had really lost the ****ing plot!
Five Magics,
Is Mark MT's 5M?
Yes.
How come I never got the memo?
You're out of the loop for a reason, sonny.
I thought it was common knowledge?
Is Mark MT's 5M?
Haha! I haven't used MT for ages.
... So, a bit of a random comment there from DelBoy. :confused:
, which equals a ****load more growth phases a year than volume training nerds, who get 52 growth phases a year per bodypart if they are lucky (one a week),
That is one major issue I have with split routines. I doubt I will ever use a split routine again.
Protein synthesis returns to base levels 36-48 hours after training - just a thought!
Protien synthesis is not elevated much above base levels afetr abotu 4 hours PWO.
JumboTron9million
06-05-2005, 18:45
Agree with Dildo, disagree with Robotron 2.2
Day 24 + 25: off.
Day 26:
OHP: 60kg - 8.
Deadlift: 107.5kg - 6. :011:
Dumbbell Bench: 33.5kg - 7.
One Arm Row: 41kg - 7.
Tricep Dip: 13.5kg - 9.
Dumbbell Curl: 18kg - 8.
I tried once again to cut my rest period by one day, and it didn't work well. Every four days, for me, is clearly better than every 3 days. I find that I can progress on small exercises like curls and tricep dips every 3 days, but I actually regress on the big exercises if I perform them too frequently.
So, every four days from now on.
Day 27: Off.
Day 28:
Decline Crunches: 10kg - 8.
Excellent. I do one set of crunches every 6+ days and am making very good progress. A few weeks ago I only got 10 reps with 0kg! HIT rules.
I'm not going to be updating this journal anymore, as I wont be online much from now on.
Why?
He's taken HIT to its logical conclusion and stopped training altogether... :016:
He saw my vids and saw how sexy I am and decided to stop training as HIT will never gte him there.
He's taken HIT to its logical conclusion and stopped training altogether... :016:
Haha! No. I'm still training, with HIT... I just can't be bothered to keep updating a journal! :045:
Haha! No. I'm still training, with HIT... I just can't be bothered to keep updating a journal! :045:
Bah... Everyone knows that a journal on IC puts 20kg on all your lifts. Stopping now will just kill your progress.
He's taken HIT to its logical conclusion and stopped training altogether... :016:
:046:
*ahem*
I'm intending to compete in an IC-tested federation...
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