View Full Version : What would you do?
Hypothetical question:
Male. 220lbs at 20% and 6ft. Advanced judo exponent. Wants to use weight trainig to improve perfromance on mat. Routine outlines on a postcard, or here, whichever you like.
PikeKing
17-01-2005, 15:37
Hypothetical question:
Male. 220lbs at 20% and 6ft. Advanced judo exponent. Wants to use weight trainig to improve perfromance on mat. Routine outlines on a postcard, or here, whichever you like.
whats his(?) experience with weights?
i'm assuming not much?
1 route would be to just hit the big compounds hard, deads, squats, dips, pull ups, push presses etc...
other option is to get into odd object work, log/sand bang carrys/throws, dragging
mixing the 2 would be best i think
Good question. Take it that he is very fit (GPP/fight wise) but not very strong. Could you put together a sample routine to comapre to mine.
I thought;
1.
Deadlift
Dip
2.
GPP
3.
Odd object
Thick bar
PikeKing
17-01-2005, 16:03
ME Upper, RM Lower
Pull up - 90 degree flexed elbow hang for time, 3 sets, 60 secs between sets, add weight as required, use various grips, pro, sup, mixed
Front Squat - 8RM load, 3 sets, 60 secs between sets, increase reps not loading
Dips 3 x 8-10
Bent Leg Pullthrough 3 x 8-10
ME Lower, RM Upper
Back Squat, Dead, GM - 5 sets of 3-5 reps
Supine Row - 3 sets of max reps, 60 secs between sets, increase reps not loading
Pistol Squats 3 x 8-10
Landmines 3 x 8-10
Odd Object
Use imagination
Alternate between weights and odd object stuff each session. 2-3 workouts per week.
This is probably more advanced than someone with his experience needs.
Hmm. A little high on the volume there me thinks. Training MA with DOMS is not fun.
Also, why chins? I know they will biuld muscle and strength in the back and arms, but so would rows and DL's. If anything, rows would have, imo, slightly more carryover?
PikeKing
17-01-2005, 16:23
Hmm. A little high on the volume there me thinks. Training MA with DOMS is not fun.
yeah maybe
Also, why chins? I know they will biuld muscle and strength in the back and arms, but so would rows and DL's. If anything, rows would have, imo, slightly more carryover?
i think chins/pullups are better in this situation as you cant cheat em.
Supine Rows will more than take care of horizontal pulling.
its just a suggested routine off the top of my head
PikeKing
17-01-2005, 22:42
I've given this more thought when I was walking home from work tonight.
Whats important to a Judo guy?
Strength
Power
Endurance
Rotational Strength
Grip Strength
Balance
Exercises for strength: Squats, DLs, Dips, Pullups, Push Press/Military Press
Power: The above plus hang power clean & hang power snatch
Endurance: The above plus special exercises.
Rotational Strength: Landmines, full contact twists, various woodchops, side bends, odd object oblique throws.
Grip: Towel pull ups, towel anythings for that matter, thick holds, levering.
Balance: Unilateral leg work, obscured vision work.
Week 1-3
Workout 1: Squat 3x5, Pullups 3x5, Landmines 3x6
Workout 2: 20 secs of each, x 5. Step ups, Hand ups, Mountain Climbers. Planks, inch worms etc...
Workout 3: Hang Snatch 5x3, Dips 3x5, Static Lunge 3x8
Week 4-6
Workout 1: Deadlift 3x5, Military Press 3x5, Woodchop 3x6
Workout 2: Odd object carries & dragging. Planks, inch worms etc...
Workout 3: Power Clean 5x3, Supine Row 3x5, Bulgarian Squat 3x8
Week 7-9
Workout 1: Deadlift 5x3 > Powerclean 5x3 Complex, Full Contact Twists 3x6
Workout 2: 20 secs of each, x 5. Step ups, Hand ups, Mountain Climbers. Planks, inch worms etc...
Workout 3: Front Squat Press 3x5, Pistol Squat 3x8, Towel Pullups 3x5
I think that a routine with more variation would suit a marital artist much more than a routine more dedicated to a increasing the poundage on a few exercises.
Exercises for strength: Squats, DLs, Dips, Pullups, Push Press/Military Press
I wouldn't bother with mill press personaly, not if you have dip and PP.
Power: The above plus hang power clean & hang power snatch
Necessary? Power is a function of strength? Get stronger=Get more powerful as a by product.
Endurance: The above plus special exercises.
GPP and actual 'mat time' will take care of that I would wager.
Rotational Strength: Landmines, full contact twists, various woodchops, side bends, odd object oblique throws.
Yep.
Grip: Towel pull ups, towel anythings for that matter, thick holds, levering.
Yep. And thick rope stuff.
Balance: Unilateral leg work, obscured vision work.
No experince with this, so can't comment other than to say that most of the time in judo (not jiu jitsu, judo is the sporty, olympic, waterd down version) your on the mat squirming about like a spider, balence is important, but again, I think actual mat time will take care of that.
Week 1-3
Workout 1: Squat 3x5, Pullups 3x5, Landmines 3x6
Workout 2: 20 secs of each, x 5. Step ups, Hand ups, Mountain Climbers. Planks, inch worms etc...
Workout 3: Hang Snatch 5x3, Dips 3x5, Static Lunge 3x8
Week 4-6
Workout 1: Deadlift 3x5, Military Press 3x5, Woodchop 3x6
Workout 2: Odd object carries & dragging. Planks, inch worms etc...
Workout 3: Power Clean 5x3, Supine Row 3x5, Bulgarian Squat 3x8
Week 7-9
Workout 1: Deadlift 5x3 > Powerclean 5x3 Complex, Full Contact Twists 3x6
Workout 2: 20 secs of each, x 5. Step ups, Hand ups, Mountain Climbers. Planks, inch worms etc...
Workout 3: Front Squat Press 3x5, Pistol Squat 3x8, Towel Pullups 3x5
I was actually thinking about a single set of, say squats or mill press. Start with 8RM, keep doing that single set (1-2 times/week) until you get 10 reps, then up the bar by 10lb/5kg, and go keep plugging away at that till you get 10reps, repeat. And lots of core/grip work. The single set would be low enough volume wise to not have a massive effect, if any, on his/her MA training. BUT: I like the ideas here. I do think 3 days of weights is too much though.
my attempt:
1)
2"/db/s.bag clean + push press/jerk
back squat
core
2)
upper body calisthenics circuit for time(10 of each dips, pullups,mixed pressups,etc do as many sets as you can within a certain amount of time, a bit like EDT)
farmers walk
sand bag carry
sled pull
assorted grip work (plier lifts, lever,etc)
3)
sandbag/2" deadlifts
step ups/walking db lunges
rows
core
PikeKing
18-01-2005, 13:37
I wouldn't bother with mill press personaly, not if you have dip and PP.
i was just creating an exercise pool
Necessary? Power is a function of strength? Get stronger=Get more powerful as a by product.
yeah thats true, thats why i chose the hang variations to get more hip power
GPP and actual 'mat time' will take care of that I would wager.
yeah probably, some lactate work is definately needed though, in order to recover from arm pumps etc... maybe put workout 2 at the end of the other workouts
Yep.
:032:
Yep. And thick rope stuff.
:117:
No experince with this, so can't comment other than to say that most of the time in judo (not jiu jitsu, judo is the sporty, olympic, waterd down version) your on the mat squirming about like a spider, balence is important, but again, I think actual mat time will take care of that.
yeah i agree, thats what all i put in was unilateral leg work, i think the only time that you would really need to put anything else in would be when coming back from injury.
I was actually thinking about a single set of, say squats or mill press. Start with 8RM, keep doing that single set (1-2 times/week) until you get 10 reps, then up the bar by 10lb/5kg, and go keep plugging away at that till you get 10reps, repeat. And lots of core/grip work. The single set would be low enough volume wise to not have a massive effect, if any, on his/her MA training. BUT: I like the ideas here. I do think 3 days of weights is too much though.
its 2 days per week. its difficult to make a routine with limited info. With this persons limited training anything would work I think.
I do some martial arts and 3 weights sessions a week as well as two MA sessions is pretty harsh on the recovery, and 2 MA sessions is the minimum.
For judo I would definitely recommend more cleans - explosive back power for throws/takedowns is a must - and also zerchers. Picking people up is a lot more awkward than gripping a bar, so zerchers would be slightly more relevant IMO. Bent over rows maybe should also feature more for grapplers.
PikeKing
18-01-2005, 14:12
yeah all good points 666
which martial art(s) do you do?
the zercher squats have reminded me of an exercise I called ass kicker squats.
bear hug a sand bag, squat right down to floor, roll onto back then over on to side and stand up again. horrible
Hi Narc, fellas in general.
PikeKing, I do Krav Maga and a bit of BJJ. Only one grappling session a fortnight but it's all good.
Love the sound of those ass kicker squats (technical term I assume) - I've got a few bags of cement in my garage which may well be put to use pretty soon.
Alot of grip work is important in judo, when I did I found that if you had a really strong grip you had a huge advantage. When this person trains for judo does their class do any conditioning work (e.g. circuits) cos mine did one every session for about 30 minutes, which would have an affect on the amount of weights they could do?
By the way,is this routine for a real person?
No, just for discussion. People seemed a bit hesitant to post in this forum (myself included), so I chose a topic I am fluent in and one that has a different opinion with every single person: Fighting.
mine did one every session for about 30 minutes, which would have an affect on the amount of weights they could do?
We some conditioning every session and that can certainly affect how well I train the next day. Most of the time it's not much, but then once a month or so he'll give us a "Sickener" session to keep us on our toes. Nice.
Sounds nice! Yeah same as ours. I always found that the training I did for judo would affect my weight training. Tiredness from mat work, practices, conditioning work, aches and pains from minor knocks would always affect my training the next day, so I ended up moving the day.
Tell me about it. Now I only do two weights sessions a week I can do my midweek one on Tue if Mon's MA isn't too harsh or put if off until Thur if I'm cream-crackered. I now just need to find time to put in a few extra bits like bridging, core work and a bit of re/pre-hab but struggling for time and for being sufficiently recovered not to be cr*p at them.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.