View Full Version : Bodybuilding Journal
I've decided to start a journal for my new routine.
Here it is:
Workout 1:
Deadlift 5x5
Wide Pull Up 5x5
One Arm Row 5x5
Dumbbell Curl 1x6
Workout 2:
Dumbbell Incline Bench 5x5
OHP 5x5
Dips 5x5
Standing Tricep Ext. 2x6
Workout 3:
Barbell Hack Squat 5x5
RDL 5x5
One Leg Calf Raise (+dumbbell hold)3x8
Pretty basic routine. I was considering giving front squats a go, but two things made me decide to stick with barbell hacks. 1) I'm still making very quick progress on the hack squat and it doesn't make sense to drop it at this time, and 2) I lack the wrist flexibilty and technique to front squat properly and i would therefore be using silly weights like 30kg for working sets. Practicing the front squat while still lifting heavy on the hack is my decision.
Week 1: Workout 1:
Deadlift - 105kg 5/5/5/4/4.
Pull Ups - BW - 5/5/4/3/2.
D Rows - 32.5kg - 5/5/5/5/5.
D Curls: 15kg - Left:5. Right:6.
Rowing machine: 5 minutes. 1000 metres.
Good workout. Deadlifts were a little more taxing on the lower back than the 4x3 I've been doing previously. I'm actually quite pleased with my pull up performance! That is the best I've ever got on a 5x5 pull up attempt! I haven't done them for at least 4 months, and I've gained weight since I last tried, so my arm/back strength must have improved a fair bit. Rows were easy with 32.5kg. I'm gonna try for 35kg next time. Curls? Hmm... My biceps were already tired! I don't care, I will just add 0.5kg per week and see what happens.
Why are you still doing DB rows? I thought they hurt you, or am I mixed up :confused:
Good luck,I always find your journals interesting and always follow them even though I never posting them
Why are you still doing DB rows? I thought they hurt you, or am I mixed up :confused:
No, I think it was that stretching exercise. The rows are fine.
Good luck,I always find your journals interesting and always follow them even though I never posting them
Cheers mate! Post some more!
Will do
Just out of curiosity, what were your stats when you first started lifting (weight, weights moved, rough measurements, etc) in comparison to now?
Just another thing to add, I'm not going to be going to failure on the main exercises. If I can feel that I wont be able to get the next rep, I wont attempt it. The reason for this is that I have massive difficulties in recovering on the 5x5 workouts. I don't think I need to go to failure anyway.
If I can feel that I wont be able to get the next rep, I wont attempt it.
Don't agree with that, 99% of the time you won't know unless you try.
Will do
Just out of curiosity, what were your stats when you first started lifting (weight, weights moved, rough measurements, etc) in comparison to now?
I have no idea what my staring measurments were. All I can say is that I felt very thin. I started training properly in October 2003 and was about 11 stone. My deadlift 1RM was about 70kg; OHP around 40kg; back squat was around 50kg; dumbbell bench 27.5kg. That is all I can remember.
Now my lifts are:
Deadlift: 150kg (probably more)
Back Squat: 125kg
Barbell Hack: 140kg
OHP: 65-70kg.
Dumbbell Bench: 40kg (estimate)
Bent Row (narrow grip): 80kg
One arm row: 45kg+.
I'm not really sure about others.
I just took some measurements too:
Thighs: 23 inches.
Calf: 15 inches
Waist: 30.5 inches (seems odd as 32 inch jeans are tight)
Forearm: 12.5-13 inches.
Chest: 42-43 inches
Don't agree with that, 99% of the time you won't know unless you try.
I usually would, but the 5x5 workout is hard. I can't be going to failure on deadlifts, pull ups, rows on monday, going to failure on dips, bench, and OHP and wednesday, and to top it all off going to failure on squats, RDL's and calf raises on friday! I've tried it before, and I make no progress that way.
I usually would, but the 5x5 workout is hard. I can't be going to failure on deadlifts, pull ups, rows on monday, going to failure on dips, bench, and OHP and wednesday, and to top it all off going to failure on squats, RDL's and calf raises on friday! I've tried it before, and I make no progress that way.
Once you fail on a rep, reduce the weight slighly for rest of your sets:
eg
100kg 5 5 4
95kg 5 5
Total: 5 sets
Good stuff, sometimes I don't think we give ourselves enough credit until we compare where we started off to our peak
Once you fail on a rep, reduce the weight slighly for rest of your sets:
eg
100kg 5 5 4
95kg 5 5
Total: 5 setsWhat about the following week?
I found I usually hit the target weight in that week after but there was no actual way of knowing until I tried it
What about the following week?
I found I usually hit the target weight in that week after but there was no actual way of knowing until I tried it
Following week:
100kg 5 5 5 5 5
if not then do the same as week before (reduce weight)
Week 1: Workout 2:
D. Inc. Bench - 30kg: 5/5/5/5/5.
OHP - 47.5kg: 5/5/5/5/5/.
Dips - BW: 5/5/4/4/3.
Standing Tricep Ext. - 25kg: 6/5.
Rowing machine: 4mins - 900metres.
A good workout, although slightly easy as I chose too small a weight for the bench and OHP. The bench could have been 1kg higher per hand I think, and the OHP could have been around 5kg more. Dips were still hard though. I don't like them much, but I will keep at it and start adding weight when I get 5x5.
I can't weight until friday, when I get to have a pop at hack squats with 95kg! Bring it on!
Cardio: 13/01.
Rowing: 20 minutes - 4178 metres
I enjoyed this. Interestingly, this is my best ever performance on my rowing machine, despite the fact that I have hardly done any cardio at all over the last year. I definitely prefer this to running as it involves the whole body and also doesn't put strain on the knees and ankles as running does.
I think I will just do 20 minutes three times per week, obviously aiming to complete more metres on each occasion.
Personally, I would try too hard to improve your CV each week. Cv and weights don't mix, pick one or you'll end up crap at both.
Personally, I would try too hard to improve your CV each week. Cv and weights don't mix, pick one or you'll end up crap at both.
Where do you get that from? 20 minutes three times per week is hardly any cardio at all. It's not as if I'm doing miles of running everyday!
Cardio is useful. It can improve conditioning and endurance. It can lower blood pressure. It can promote a more favourable cholesterol risk ratio (ie total:HDL). I think all those things are important.
I think what Robert was getting at wasthe idea of trying to excel in both would produce submaximal standards in CV fitness and strength.
I would find going mad and trying to produce record-breaking CV attempts and trying to hit the weights hard would be very tough
Perhaps doing three longer, less intense sessions of CV may prove to be more useful
I think what Robert was getting at wasthe idea of trying to excel in both would produce submaximal standards in CV fitness and strength.
I would find going mad and trying to produce record-breaking CV attempts and trying to hit the weights hard would be very tough
Perhaps doing three longer, less intense sessions of CV may prove to be more useful
I see the point you and Robert are making, but I think there has been a misunderstanding. I don't get on the rower, and then go 100% for 20 minutes in a desperate attempt to break records. I just get on there are row at a moderate pace for 20 minutes. As my level of fitness improves, my performance should also improve. I'm not going to go mental on the rowing machine at any point. I will just row at a moderate pace, and if I complete more metres in 20 minutes that is fine, if I don't I wont lose sleep over it!
Progressing on the weights is far more important. I just do the rowing for cardiovascular health.
Week 1: Workout 3:
Hack Squats: 100kg - 5/5/5/5/5.
RDL: .... Disaster.
What happened here homie?
What happened here homie?
My form wasn't right. I didn't decide before hand what my range of motion would be. I did 80kg and got 5/5/5/4/4, but I was going down really far on some reps (without rounding back) and not so far other times. I'm not sure whether to go for a full ROM or cut it short a little for extra weights. :017:
Personally I would go as far as possible. But do whatever suits your goals best.
Week 2: Workout 1 (17/01)
Deadlift: 120kg - 5/5/5/3/3.
Pull Ups: 0kg - 5/5/4/4/3.
One arm rows: 35kg - 5/5/5/5/5.
I had a pop at 120kg for 5x5 deadlifts, which is 15kg more than last week. I could have got it but my bloody hands gave way after 3 reps on the final 2 sets. I could only have carried on by dragging the weight up with my fingertips! I will keep using this weight until I get at least 5/5/5/5/4.
I'm getting closer to 5x5 on the pull ups. I am going to be patient and make sure I get 5x5 before adding weight, then I will add 1kg per week.
Rows were good. I'm gonna try 36kg next week.
my Rdl's stop just below the knee, and i shove my ass right back...i set the pins in the cage about 6" below the knee and come up just as the bar brushes the pin
Also, I almost closed my RB 180 gripper last night. I missed it by about 1cm-1.5cm. It is annoying really since I can do 15+ reps with the CoC1! :017:
Also, I almost closed my RB 180 gripper last night. I missed it by about 1cm-1.5cm. It is annoying really since I can do 15+ reps with the CoC1! :017:
1cm is miles off TBH mate. Keep plugging hard.
1cm is miles off TBH mate. Keep plugging hard.
Haha! Well it looked close to me! The last time I tried I could barely budge the bugger! I don't really practice grippers much. It would be nice to close the piece of shit though. It annoys me.
My traps are bloody sore today too! And glutes too! Those deads were awesome yesterday. I am gonna get 5x5 next time and go on a mad rampage of deadlift progress over the next 10 weeks or so!
Rob is right, it is miles off. It's like half squatting a weight and calling it almost parallel.
Rob is right, it is miles off. It's like half squatting a weight and calling it almost parallel.
It's nothing like saying that at all.
Week 2: Workout 2.
Dumbbell Incline: 31kg - 5/5/5/5/4.
OHP: 51kg - 5/5/5/5/5.
Dips: 0kg - 5/5/5/4/3.
Tricep extension: 25kg - 6/5 .... :011:
Overall a good workout. I'm pissed off that I didn't get that last rep on the bench press though.
It's nothing like saying that at all.
ok.
Week 2: Workout 3: (****ing hell.....)
Hack Squat: 102.5kg - 5/5/2..... :043:
Back Squat: 95kg - 5/5/5.
RDL: 80kg - 5/5/5/3/3.
A bit of a disaster, but I now know what I've got to do. The hack squats are being relegated to 1 set at the end of the workout because with heavy weights the bar keeps hitting the back of my ankle - which is painful. Back squats are making a return for 3x5.
My grip keeps spoling my RDL performance, so I will use double-overhand until it compromises my form, then use mixed grip so I can maintain safe and proper form. I just can't concentrate on form when the bar is hanging on my fingertips.
So.... Next week will be:
Back Squat: 3x5
RDL: 5x5
Hack Squat: 1x8
I have got a weakness somewhere, but I can't quite work out what it is.
See if you can help me! Here are some facts:
-My back squat is weak (125kg).
-I feel weak on narrow stance RDL's, yet I feel fine with a wide stance.
-However, my legs/lower-back are strong enough to deadlift 120kg for 5/5/5/3/3, and hack squat 140kg for 1 rep.
Any ideas?
Need more facts: Delete wide/close as applic' and state lbages.
Squat wide/close?
Gm wide/close?
SLDL?
RDL wide/close?
Front squat?
Mini max on squat? (mm=where do you fail?)
mini max on Gm?
Going with what you have said already, I am guessing weak glutes/lowerback. But I could be wrong so I need more info.
Also, glad to see you ahve finally come round to your ****ing senses.
Need more facts: Delete wide/close as applic' and state lbages.
Squat wide/close?
Gm wide/close?
SLDL?
RDL wide/close?
Front squat?
Mini max on squat? (mm=where do you fail?)
mini max on Gm?
Going with what you have said already, I am guessing weak glutes/lowerback. But I could be wrong so I need more info.
Also, glad to see you ahve finally come round to your ****ing senses.
I can't give you poundages for all those exercises. Wide squatting seems easier than narrow squatting. Wide stance RDL seems more comfortable than narrow. I have exactly the same problem with barbell rows... i.e. I seem to get pulled forward with a narrow stance, but am far more solid with a wider stance.
I don't front squat or GM so I can't give figures there.
I pretty much now what I've got to do though: work very hard on the back squat, and work very hard on the RDL (not letting my grip spoil things).
ARGH... I have serious doms in hams, quads, glutes, lower back, upper back and abs today!
How are we supposed to determine your weakness in the squat, if you have never tried to GM? Or have never mini maxed?
I think you need to suqta more. A lot more. And harder
Work your glutes hard.
Sit back not down.
Grow a spine and squat hard. <you already have one, but this insult will hopefully make you work harder.
Your not pushign your arse out enough when rowing.
How are we supposed to determine your weakness in the squat, if you have never tried to GM? Or have never mini maxed?
I think you need to suqta more. A lot more. And harder
Work your glutes hard.
Sit back not down.
Grow a spine and squat hard. <you already have one, but this insult will hopefully make you work harder.
Your not pushign your arse out enough when rowing.
I have never heard of mini max. Is it part of the powerlifters repertoire?
Read the other post again.
Mini max on squat? (mm=where do you fail?)douche bag.
douche bag.
Queer bait.
I used to fail at the bottom before my latest 1RM attempt. It might be different now though.
In 40 minutes time I will be trying to do deadlifts with 120kg for 5x5. I'm gonna do a decent warm up to 120kg, and then give it everything I've got. That weight is going up 25 times today, no matter what. I weigh 13 1/2 stone; this weight should be easy to me by now.
I guess if I fail, I will be the subject of Robert's ridicule for months to come!
Make sure you get 25 reps wether it takes 5 minutes or 60 :029:
In 40 minutes time I will be trying to do deadlifts with 120kg for 5x5. I'm gonna do a decent warm up to 120kg, and then give it everything I've got. That weight is going up 25 times today, no matter what. I weigh 13 1/2 stone; this weight should be easy to me by now.
I guess if I fail, I will be the subject of Robert's ridicule for months to come!
Yes you will. For a 13.5st man, 120kg should feel like a bag of sweeties. If you don't get all 25 reps this week, and next week when you up the weight to 130kg I will name thee; forum jellyfish. On account of you being a big useless lump of inefficient [gay] mass.
Well I ****ed up big time. I got no where near what I got last week.
BengDogg
24-01-2005, 20:41
I will name thee; forum jellyfish. On account of you being a big useless lump of inefficient [gay] mass.
Lol! Cmon mark at your weight you should be shitting 120kg's after breakfast!
Well I ****ed up big time. I got no where near what I got last week.
What went wrong jelly fish?
Post it up fish face. All we can do is try and help?
Yes you will. For a 13.5st man, 120kg should feel like a bag of sweeties. If you don't get all 25 reps this week, and next week when you up the weight to 130kg I will name thee; forum jellyfish. On account of you being a big useless lump of inefficient [gay] mass.
So what if it is inefficient? How efficient is your mass? How much do you bent press? How much do you snatch? How much do you turkish-get-up? How much do you barbell hack? Probably nowhere near as much as you could if you focused all your efforts on those exercises.
There are little people who can lift more weight than me. I have more muscle than them, yet they can deadlift more, front squat more, snatch more, clean more and so on. Why is that? Because they devote their training to the end goal of one-off lifts. They specialise in strength in certain movements. Most olympic lifters have dreadful physiques though: blocky legs, block waist, no chest, no arms, and the occasional belly. I used to see guys down at the gym curling more than I do now, even though they had skinny arms. Why? Because they devoted much of their training to bicep curls.
If there are girls at the olympics who can snatch more than you, doesn't it indicate that muscle-building isn't all about obsessing over weight on the bar? Presumably, I could increase my snatch by 80kg, and not grow at all. In fact, I could lose weight and and still lift more than I do now! Similarly, I could be 10 stone and lift more on deadlift, squat, and deadlift than I do now. But that would require me to change my goal from "improve my health and physique" to "be as strong as possible in three exercises".
Having 'efficient' mass will do nothing for me. I've gained strength in some exercises in the past without corresponding increases in mass, to find out that a few weeks away from that specific exercise leads to a loss of the strength. Dips are my best example. I could dip 25kg for 3x3 when I was doing them twice per week, now I can't even get 5x5 with bodyweight.... despite the fact that my chest and triceps are bigger! I also used to static hold 120kg with overhand grip. I would even be able to hold 120 with over hand now! Because I don't practice it!
The only reason they [non-SHW oly lifters] gain mass is because they CAN eat lots. The ones in the weight restricted catagoires can't, so the only gains they get are neural.
Stop making excuses.
Mark, you got email.
Some of this: :014:
But some of this too: a2a
So don't worry.
I got into the gym today, and decided to do something a little different. 5x5 is dull. The first few sets are a waste in my opinion. They serve only to fatigue the muscles so that the final set is challenging. Here is what I did:
Week 3: Workout 2:
Incline D. Press: 27.5kg - 8. 30kg - 6. 32.5kg - 3.
OHP: 47.5kg - 8. 51kg - 6. 53.5kg - 3.
Wide Dips: BW - 5.
Skull Crushers: 25kg - 6/6. Followed immediately by narrow (tricep) dips - 2 reps.
This was a good workout. All the sets were hard work.
I'm going to revise the other two work outs in a similar fashion. Although deadlifts will not take this form.
This is something new for me. I like it.
How can I change the name of this journal? The title is a bit misleading... It isn't 5x5 anymore!
BengDogg
27-01-2005, 16:20
I think if you edit the first post you can if not let one of the mods know and we will sort it
Week 3: Workout 3.
Back Squat: 85kg - 8. 95kg - 6. 102.5kg - 4.
Immediately followed by: Leg Extensions (to failure) - 25kg - 8.
RDL: 70kg - 8. 80kg - 6. 87.5kg - 3/3.
Dumbbell Curl: Triple Drop Set.
This workout was hard. The first set of squats was a little too easy. 85kg wasn't hard for 8 reps. The final set of 4 reps was very, very challenging. My face must have been bright red on that last rep!
The 8 and 6 rep sets on RDL's were killer. I couldn't quite make 4 on the last set, so I waited 20 seconds and knocked out another 3 in a fit of (controlled!)aggression!
I'm doing a curl triple drop set on this workout because I want to hit my biceps directly twice per week as I have neglected them for around 6 months.
"I've got something to put in you"
"I wanna' spend all your money"
"Lets start a neuclear war"
"Your a superstar"
"At the [...]"
"I've got something to put in you"
"I wanna' spend all your money"
"Lets start a neuclear war"
"Your a superstar"
"At the [...]"
?
Week 4: Workout 1.
Deadlift: 120kg - 6. 130kg - 4. 145kg - 2.
One Arm Rows: R/L 32.5kg - 9/9. 35kg - 6/6. 37.5kg - 4/5.
Dumbbell Curls: 16kg Right - 6/6. Left - 6/5.
Deadlifts were good. I managed to knock out 2 reps with 145kg even after two very tough sets.
I was going to do pull-ups after rows, but I couldn't even get one rep! The rows took it out of me big time. Best rowing session in ages for me.
Progress on curls is slow, but I will be patient.
Edit: 9 reps on first set of rows. Not 8. I aimed for 8, but I had another rep in me.
I've now done 3 workouts with this set/rep scheme, and I really have a good feeling about it. It is more bodybuilding-oriented (i.e. failure sets, 8/6/4 etc), but I actually lift heavier weights on this than I did on that dire 5x5 workout.
BengDogg
01-02-2005, 17:32
This seems to be a good system for you the weights are up a fair bit!
Week 4: Workout 2.
Dumbbell Incline Bench: 28.5kg - 9. 30.5kg - 6. 32.5kg - 3/2.
OHP: 48.5kg - 8. 51kg - 6. 53.5kg - 4.
Wide Grip Dips: BW - 6.
Skullcrusher: 26kg - 5/4. Immediately followed by narrow grip dips - 1.
I'm pleased with the bench and OHP. I didn't get all 4 reps on the last set of bench, so I waited for a minute then knocked out another 2. I should be able to get all the reps next week,
I'm a little disappointed by the skullcrushers. I added 1kg but got nowhere near 2x6. The one tricep dip after that felt like a 1RM attempt!
Week 4: Workout 3.
Back Squat: 87.5kg - 8. 97.5kg - 6. 105kg - 4. Followed immediately by Leg Extensions (1 x failure): 25kg - 16.
RDL: 72.5kg - 8. 82.5kg - 6. 87.5kg - 4.
Dumbbell Curl: 16kg - Left (12/7). Right (12/7).
I'm making real progress here. The 8 rep sets for squats and RDL's was very challenging last week, but despite adding 2.5kg to both they were relatively comfortable this week. The final set of squats was also surprisingly comfortable. I should have attempted a 5th rep.
I was shocked by the reps I got on those curls. I aimed for 2x6, but somehow I just kept knocking out reps until I got to 12. Curling twice per week seems to work well for me.
Don't post crap on the journal mate. If you don't like it, don't read it.
I think I'm gonna have to take this week off. I almost sliced off the tip of my index finger while cooking. I went to A+E to get it sorted and they said not to use the hand for 5 days.
Oh well. Typical. Just as I start making progress, something happens to hold me back.
PikeKing
07-02-2005, 22:13
bugger, hope its not your right hand mate!
the rest will do you good, you'll come back stronger
bugger, hope its not your right hand mate!
the rest will do you good, you'll come back stronger
Haha! No, it's the left. I was so desperate to stuff my face that I attempted to hack a bag of mince open with a knife! I almost sliced a huge chunk off my finger! I now have some dressing on there that prevents me from bending the finger, so I can't to any real training.
I need to move my days to wednesday, friday, sunday anyway. So I can skip back workout this week, and possibly do push workout on friday.
I was so up for that workout today as well.... So annoying.
Week 5: Workout 1.
Deadlifts: (Not today - Finger not healed)
1 Arm Rows: (Right/Left) 33.5kg - 11/11. 36kg - 8/8. 38.5kg - 5/5.
D Curls: (Right/Left) 16kg - 8-5/8-5.
No deadlifts today. It would have ripped my finger wound open.
Rows were bloody good. I can't believe I knocked out 11/8/5 when I thought I'd struggle with 8/6/4.
Progress on curls seems to be speeding up now.
Week 5: Workout 2.
Dumbbell Bench: 28.5kg - 10. 30.5kg - 5. 32.5kg - 4.
OHP: 50kg - 6. 52kg - 6. 54.5kg - 4.
Dips: BW - 7.
Skullcrusher: 26kg - 4/5. Followed immediately by Tricep Dips: BW - 1.
I am pleased with the bench today. I pushed a little too hard on the first set (getting 10 reps when I should have aimed for 8) and missed 1 rep off the second set as a consequence. BUT I finaly got four reps with the 32.5kg.
I don't know what happened on the first set of OHP. I just couldn't get past 6! I will get 8 next time.
No progress on skullcrushers this week. I need to get hold of some very small plates so I can increase in smaller increments on isolation exercises.
Week 5: Workout 3.
Squat: 90kg - 8. 98.5kg - 6. 108.5kg - 4.
RDL: 75kg - 8. 82.5kg - 5. 92.5kg - 3/3/2.
Curls: (Left/Right) - 16.5kg: 10-6/10-7.
Squats were very hard today. The final rep was a big struggle, but I got it. For some reason squats are causing some pain in my left forearm. Hopefully it wont happen next time.
I DESPISE RDL's! I didn't do too badly today in terms of weight/reps, but my form from one rep to the next varies too much. Some times I go down way too far, and I don't know why I do it. I need to figure out how low I'm gonna go on every rep and just stick to it. Most pictures I see show people doing RDL's with the bar at its lowest point being just below the knee, so I am going to use that as my range of motion.
Curls were good. Very strict form.
Hmm... I have a back workout in about 5 mins, but I have no idea what I'm gonna do with regard to deadlifts. I no longer want to use a mixed-grip as it feels incredibly uncomfortable. My overhand grip strength is incredibly poor at the moment as well as I haven't used it with 100kg+ for a while. So there is no way I can continue from the weights I was using in the last workout.
I want to switch to hook grip, but it was very painful when I last tried it. I think it will be better for me in the long term, so I am just going to have to keep using it until it becomes more comfortable.
Week 6: Workout 1:
Deadlift (double overhand): 115kg - 2/2/2. Rubbish.
One Arm Row: 34kg - 8-8. 36.5kg - 6-6. 39kg - 4-4.
Dumbbell Curl: 16.5kg - 8-5/8-4.
Deadlifts were rubbish. My grip kept giving out after 2 reps. All I can do is keep trying really. I'm not going back to mixed-grip as I really dislike it.
More progress on rows and curls.
PikeKing
16-02-2005, 23:32
dude you dont have to do deadlifts, they are great but their arent mandatory, you can use olympic style pulls in their place, the weight will be less so your grip will be cool and you get to do some cool exercises.
Try something like a snatch or clean pull from the hang position.
I disagree. Mark has finally found something that seems to be working for him (routine) and is getting there in terms of mentality, the last thing he needs to do is start switching things up just because it isn't going his way. Working on a weakness would be the wisest option, closely followed by sheer bloody mindedness to get that weight up (I.e. just keep plugging away), finally, when all else fails, you may want to consider changing the rep range and or exercise selection.
It is my opinion that for anyone with less than 2 years in training, deadlifts are without exception the best exercise you can do.
Mark, I have said this before but I might as well say it again:
Do singles. Doing singles does not have mean going mega heavy. If your hands are only capable of using 130kg or so for 1-2 reps at a time, then so be it (for now).
Split the sets up so you use the same total volume (or more) but don't rep it out.
I.e. 120-130x10x1 is better than 115x3x2, by a long long way.
I disagree. Mark has finally found something that seems to be working for him (routine) and is getting there in terms of mentality, the last thing he needs to do is start switching things up just because it isn't going his way. Working on a weakness would be the wisest option, closely followed by sheer bloody mindedness to get that weight up (I.e. just keep plugging away), finally, when all else fails, you may want to consider changing the rep range and or exercise selection.
I am gonna keep trying with the deadlifts. I far prefer using an double overhand grip to a mixed grip, even though I have to cut the weight a lot. The mixed grip was fine when I had my left palm facing away, but it was just so uncomfortable with my right palm facing away.
I will probably do singles as you suggested. I'm not sure I will be able to hold 130 at the moment though! :(
PikeKing
17-02-2005, 11:53
also to add to roberts comments, which i do actually agree with, is to manipulate the rest periods. If the number of reps and weight your grip limits how hard you have to work, drop the rest periods down. I have great success using 8x3 with a 5RM load, using 60 second rest periods.
You dont have to time it, just start going before you are fully recovered. Obviously keep an eye on form.
I have decided to take Roberts suggestion of 10x1. I think it makes sense. I will start with 45 second rest intervals. I may do some singles after with hook grip so that I can possibly switch to hook grip in the future. These singles will obviously be a lot lighter, since even 70kg with hook grip is painful for me at this time.
I'm also going to add a trap exercise to the workout as the weights I'm going to be deadlifting with wont be enough to really work my traps. I will use either trap rows or shrugs (probably trap rows). I'm not sure whether to do 8/6/4 as I do with my main exercises, or just 1x6/8. I am recovering well on this routine, so I kind of like the idea of 8/6/4 on trap rows*.
*Note: When I say trap rows, I do not mean upright rows! It is a row to the nipple line in a slightly bent over stance. I prefer this method to supported trap rows.
Dumbbell bench set/rep scheme may be a little different tomorrow. I need to use 29kg for my first set but I am short of two 0.5kg plates, so I can't load the dumbells with 29kg. I have two options really: 1) Jump straight to 30kg and go all out for 8 and use the same weight for the second set (6 reps), or 2) Use 28.5kg for 8 which will be easy (since I got 10 last week) and add more weight to the second and third sets.
....?
Hmm... I've been thinking about my "push" workout, and have decided to make a change. My triceps are not getting an optimum workout as things are, so I have decided to put close grip bench press in on the same set/rep scheme as dumbbell bench and OHP, and drop skullcrushers for the time being.
I don't like skullcrushers, and progress will be painfully slow. Close grip bench will be better.
Week 6: Workout 2.
Dumbbell Bench: 30kg - 8. 32.5kg - 5. 33.5kg - 3.
OHP: 50kg - 7. 52.5kg - 4. 55kg - 3.
CG Bench: 60kg - 7. 67.5kg - 3/3.
Not really what I expected. The dumbbell bench went a lot better than I expected, but the rest went a lot worse!
I got 8 with 30kg and went on to get 5 with 32.5kg on the dumbbell bench, which I am very pleased with. The OHP was disgraceful really. I tried my hardest but just couldn't lift the weight. My only explanation is that the benching really took it out of me - it was FAR harder than last weeks benching. Hopefully I will get more reps next week.
CG bench was poor. I haven't really done it before, so my form was crap and I didn't know what weights to use. I'm gonna have to keep my ego in check and cut the weights for next week.
CG Bench: 60kg - 7. 67.5kg - 3/3.
I'm gonna have to keep my ego in check and cut the weights for next week.
Yep, that's the way to do it. Swallow your pride and then the safer, steadier progress you make will get you better gains in the long run IMO. :023:
Week 6: Workout 3:
Back Squats: 92.5kg - 8. 100kg - 6. 111kg - 3.
ATG Front Squats: Some light triples to practice form.
RDL: 76kg - 7. 82.5kg - 5. 92.5kg - 3. :019:
Dumbbell Curls: 17kg - 9-6/9-5.
Squats went well as usual. I missed one rep, but I'll get it next time. I've started to practice front squats too. I only used 40kg. It was very easy on the legs, but painful on my wrists.
RDL form still not perfect, but getting better.
Curls were good.
Next week I'm gonna do some progressive singles with the front squats. I need to get comfortable with the clean grip. I think singles will be best for that. Once I am comfortable with the form, I will put 1x8 front squats after back squats.
Since I train at home and always have access to my home gym, I'm gonna do some light front squats on off days to practice my technique and improve my wrist flexibility. Practicing once per week wont work. When next week comes round, my wrists will be stiff, the bar will hurt my shoulders etc etc. So I am gonna try to move things along a little faster so I can do some proper sets within a two weeks. I've shyed away from front squats in the past, but not this time.
Week 7: Workout 1:
Deadlift: 120kg. 5x1.
One Arm Row: 35kg 8-8. 37.5kg 6-6. 40kg 3-4.
Barbell Trap Row: 50kg - 8. 57.5kg - 5. 62.5kg - 3.
Dumbbell Curls: 17kg. L:6/4. R:6/4.
This workout was done in a freezing cold garden shed (my home gym) and was very, very uncomfortable. I had a nightmare with the deadlifts as my hands were freezing and the bar was also freezing = weak grip. I did 5 singles so it wasn't that bad.
One arm rows were great. I missed the final rep with my right arm, but other than that it was excellent. My strength on this exercise is increasing very quickly at the moment.
I wasn't sure what weights to use for trap rows. I went a little too heavy on the final two sets, but in the past I have done 65kg for 3x5. I know what I have to do next week.
Curls were a little sloppy today. The extra rowing exercise tired my biceps more than I expected. Nevermind.
PikeKing
23-02-2005, 20:50
can u explain how you do your trap rows? is it literally shruging the shoulders back rather than up or is there an actual row movement in there to?
can u explain how you do your trap rows? is it literally shruging the shoulders back rather than up or is there an actual row movement in there to?
It is a combination of shrugging and pulling I suppose.
I stand in a slightly bent over position and pull the bar to my upper abs/rib cage. I used to do supported trap rows with dumbbells on a bench, but I can shift much more weight this way and it does hit the traps hard.
This is really wierd. I'm getting stronger, but I just can't grow or improve my physique in any way. I am my own worst critic when it comes to appearance, but I seriously think I look awful right now. I'm stuck at around 13 stone 6 and I'm not lean enough to show the muscle I do have. It is becoming frustrating.
if i were you i'd carry on as you are for atleast another month or two then try to lose some bodyfat slowly if you are unhappy with it
lets face it the summer is the only time u need to look good
and the only reason im losing weight now is because i have a lot to lose :012:
if i were you i'd carry on as you are for atleast another month or two then try to lose some bodyfat slowly if you are unhappy with it
lets face it the summer is the only time u need to look good
and the only reason im losing weight now is because i have a lot to lose :012:
Yeah I'm gonna carry on doing what I'm doing. I just can't be bothered to change anything anymore. I'm getting stronger with this routine so I will keep it. It is just frustrating that I put so much effort in, get stronger, but still look crap. I mean, I can one arm row 40kg for 5 now easy, but my arms/lats are the same size they were when I struggled with 30kg for 5?! It is just ridiculous.
are you sure? did you take before and after measurements or is it just based on what you can see?
if its based on what you can see you will probably think you are making crap progress because it is slow so you cant see it yourself
if its not that then maybe your diet needs to be better or you just need to eat more?
are you sure? did you take before and after measurements or is it just based on what you can see?
if its based on what you can see you will probably think you are making crap progress because it is slow so you cant see it yourself
if its not that then maybe your diet needs to be better or you just need to eat more?
I don't know really. From what I can see, there is no growth. From the scales, there is no growth. My diet isn't that bad really. I can't eat anymore than I eat now anyway - it is just too expensive. I'm just gonna have to keep training hard. If I'm the same size when I'm squatting 140kg for 5, or one arm rowing 50kg for 5, dumbell pressing 37.5 for 5 etc etc I will be very angry.
Did some front squats today, up to 85kg. It hurt.
Week 7: Workout 2.
Crap. Not worth writing up. The cold weather spoiled it.
Not much motivation up in here, i'm feeling miserable just reading it, pull your finger out man :014:
Yeah I'm gonna carry on doing what I'm doing. I just can't be bothered to change anything anymore. I'm getting stronger with this routine so I will keep it. It is just frustrating that I put so much effort in, get stronger, but still look crap. I mean, I can one arm row 40kg for 5 now easy, but my arms/lats are the same size they were when I struggled with 30kg for 5?! It is just ridiculous.
Not wishing to sound harsh mate, but a 10-15kg increase isn't that much; you might have to build up to some big numbers to start seeing a difference. Bulking up isn't easy for most people and takes patience and perseverance. Hang on in there!
Not much motivation up in here, i'm feeling miserable just reading it, pull your finger out man :014:
I am motivated. It was just ridiculously cold today. My warm up sets felt heavy. I tried to warm up but the cold temperatures affected my performance. It is as simple as that. I train in a garden shed, not a nice heated gym. I didn't just give up and walk out. I did my workout but it was not a good workout.
I'm reversing the order of my sets for the following few weeks i.e. 4/6/8. I want the low rep set first so I can really attack the weight. Progress on some exercises is poor as things are (especially OHP and RDL). I think this change will accelerate progress in these areas.
I'm a bit confused as to how much I should attempt to squat for 4 reps tomorrow. My previous 1rm attempt was 125kg, but I have since done 108kg for 4 after two very hard working sets of 8 and 6 reps. Any suggestions? I think around 115kg. Does that sound right?
sounds about right... but i'd be tempted to go for 120....
BengDogg
26-02-2005, 19:56
Id do 2@115 and if that good go for a 117.5 and then a 120 and keep adding 2.5 kg untill i fail, thats my way anhow!
Id do 2@115 and if that good go for a 117.5 and then a 120 and keep adding 2.5 kg untill i fail, thats my way anhow!
I had a pop at 115kg today to figure out what weight I should use tomorrow. I didn't even get 2 reps. I just can't understand that. Last week I got 3 with 111kg after 2 hard sets. I'm just gonna have to keep things the same with squat: I can't afford to screw up tomorrows workout as well.
This split routine nonsense is annoying me now. Me and split routines just don't go well together. I'm returning to a full body workout with all exercises on 3x3. Last time I did this I got myself up to 13 stone 10. I like to train twice per week and train my whole body in each workout. Last time I used four compounds per workout. This time I'm using five.
This routine doesn't need much explaining. Whole body trained twice per week, and to do this properly means squatting twice:
Workout1: OHP, deadlift, front squat, dumbbell row, tricep dips.
Workout2: Back squat, RDL, dumbbell bench, t-bar row, trap row.
I' m looking forward to getting stuck into this. Front squats, deadlifts, RDLs and back squats all in one week is gonna be the kick up the arse that I need.
Jeez, that seems pretty hardcore, I like it. You had better eat like a beast!
Jeez, that seems pretty hardcore, I like it. You had better eat like a beast!
Yeah there is definitely a lot there, but when training twice per week there is plenty of time to recover between workouts.
27/02.
OHP: 56kg - 3/3/3.
Deadlift (overhand grip): 110kg - 3/3/3.
Front Squat (ATG): 70kg - 3/3/3. 85kg - 1.
One Arm Row: 37.5kg - 3/3/3.
Tricep Dips: 5kg - 3/3/3.
I really enjoyed this workout. I underestimated the weights a little for OHP, rows and tricep dips. I can pile some more on for next time.
I am loving squats at the moment, especially front squats ATG. I'm not that strong at them, but I expect to get stronger quite quickly.
Nice to see you ahve prioritised your OHP. IIRC thats [50odd kg] a step back for you.
Nice to see you ahve prioritised your OHP. IIRC thats [50odd kg] a step back for you.
Yeah, but the OHP was very easy today. I underestimated what I was capable of. I will do more next time.
ok what is an atg or ass2grass squat,how do u do them
Rogue_zero
28-02-2005, 07:48
slightly wider stance and go as low as possible
Rouge, ATG usually implies Ass2Grass (I.e. so your ass sits on your calves). Which usually means: narrow stance, high bar etc (Oly squat basically).
Rogue_zero
28-02-2005, 11:57
Rouge, ATG usually implies Ass2Grass (I.e. so your ass sits on your calves). Which usually means: narrow stance, high bar etc (Oly squat basically).
told you I didnt know that much! :023: ;)
I have a sore throat, and it is freezing cold.... and in 15 minutes I have to squat, rdl, dumbbell bench, t bar row and trap row! :013:
02/03.
Back Squat (below parallel): 100kg - 3/3/3.
Dumbbell Bench: 35kg - 3/3/3.
RDL - 90kg - 3/3/3.
T Bar Row: 70kg - 3/3/3.
Trap Row: 65kg - 3/3/3.
Good workout.
I decided to go deeper on my back squats today by quite a way. It was going almost as far as I did on ATG front squats. I felt better.
The t-bar rows were crap. My lower back was out of service after the squats and RDL's, so my form on the bent row inevitably suffers. I'm gonna switch them with pull ups from now on for the sake of my lower back!
Everything else went well.
Wrong. Persist with rows. The only way your lower back will get used to the increased volume is by actaully loading it.
Nice squat.
Wrong. Persist with rows. The only way your lower back will get used to the increased volume is by actaully loading it.
Nice squat.
Maybe. I have two options really: 1) Persist with rows, or 2) switch to pull ups.
Here is my opnion of the two options:
1) My workout 2 already has three exercises which are hard on the lower back. Rows makes it four exercises. The fact that my lower back is tired after RDL's and Squats means that my lower back limits the amount I can row (meaning that my arms and lats don't get an optimal workout).
2) Pull ups would add a vertical pull movement to my workout. The amount of weight I lift here would not be hindered by my tired lower back, therefore giving my upper back and arms a superior workout. Also, my lower back would be rested between RDL's and Trap Rows, meaning that my form on Trap Rows would be more solid.
Thoughts?
No workout to report today. I have the flu, so I will probably be off for a few days. I always get really stressed when I have to miss a workout. I think I'm obsessed with training.
I think I need to re evaluate my goals. My current goal is to get to 14 stone lean. At the moment I'm 13 stone 5 (I'll probably lose a few lbs of muscle due to flu as well) and not very lean. I can't afford to eat any more than I currently do, because it is too expensive for me and too time consuming. I already eat a chicken breast, tin of tuna, minced beef, bread, rice, pasta, fruit, vegetables, and protein/weight gainer every day. It costs too much, and to be honest it is a burden. I hate it. I have no appetite and find myself almost choking on the disgusting food.
For these reasons, I think a better goal for me at this time is 13 stone lean.
BengDogg
06-03-2005, 20:03
I ot sick of the diet also, these days i just eat good foods and enjoy my meals, very few sups used also
Mark, please don't tell me your changing your goals to suit your situation?
Mark, please don't tell me your changing your goals to suit your situation?
Yes, there is an element of that. My situation is that I can not afford to eat more food, and I do not want to eat more food. It is starting to sicken me.
Maybe I need a break from the obsessive eating. I'm starting to find it wierd to get up and eat meal after meal after meal after meal all day.
Then don't eat more food. Just stay as you are for now until you get used to it. Its no more difficult for you to eat lots than it is me. Difference being, I know that IST THE ONLY WAY I am going to get bigger. THE ONLY WAY.
Then don't eat more food. Just stay as you are for now until you get used to it. Its no more difficult for you to eat lots than it is me. Difference being, I know that IST THE ONLY WAY I am going to get bigger. THE ONLY WAY.
I would look a lot better at a lean 13 stone than I do now.
You would look a lot better as a lean 14 stone than you do now, or than you would as a lean 13 stone.
You would look a lot better as a lean 14 stone than you do now, or than you would as a lean 13 stone.
Of course, but that would require eating more and getting fatter and then cutting when I get to 15 stone. That will take years for me to get there. I am naturally a skinny rake. I have been stuck at this weight for six months... Even drinking 800 calories extra of weight gainer for two months didn't allow me to grow!
My diet isn't that bad. Maybe my training isn't suitable for my goals. I got quick gains from low rep, low volume training initially, but progress there has dried up.
Mark, getting big/lean is very very simple. Lift, eat, rest.
If one or more of those things is not allowed to be optimised at this point, then so be it. But that is NOT a good reason to lower your sights. Woudl you give up uni and make working at the checkout in Tescos your 'goal' just becuase your skint/hungry/tried/annoyed with being a student? Should I change my goals to a 1150lb total in the next 6 weeks as opposed to a 1200lb one, just because it would suit my situation better?
A pint of milk is onyl 35p. 18g protein, 25g carbs, 300 cals
Mark, getting big/lean is very very simple. Lift, eat, rest.
It is more complicated than that.
bunnyluva
06-03-2005, 23:46
IMO Its about finding a routine (basic and productive) you enjoy doing, no. of workouts, exercises, sets, reps etc etc
Then you will workout hard and consistent, this will stimulate your appetite and you will have no problems eating extra food. If it's good quality food then you will grow.
Phil
IMO Its about finding a routine (basic and productive) you enjoy doing, no. of workouts, exercises, sets, reps etc etc
Then you will workout hard and consistent, this will stimulate your appetite and you will have no problems eating extra food. If it's good quality food then you will grow.
Phil
When I did German Volume Training my appetite was huge.
bunnyluva
07-03-2005, 08:30
Did you make progress on it?
Looks like you need to take a week off, evaluate your training and diet, set a couple of realistic goals and plan out a routine you enjoy doing.
Phil
Mark, getting big/lean is very very simple. Lift, eat, rest.
If one or more of those things is not allowed to be optimised at this point, then so be it. But that is NOT a good reason to lower your sights. Woudl you give up uni and make working at the checkout in Tescos your 'goal' just becuase your skint/hungry/tried/annoyed with being a student? Should I change my goals to a 1150lb total in the next 6 weeks as opposed to a 1200lb one, just because it would suit my situation better? Good points Logan.
We all get disheartened at times. My advice is to take it easy for a week or two, enjoy yourself and then come back feeling refreshed and remotivated. Bodybuilding is a very dedicated lifestyle and it got to me back in my bbing days. Just keep perservering and your determination will pay dividends in the long run.
I say do what you want.
But it sounds like a good idea to take a few days or a week off to come up with a plan.
I already eat a chicken breast, tin of tuna, minced beef, bread, rice, pasta, fruit, vegetables, and protein/weight gainer every day. It costs too much, and to be honest it is a burden. I hate it. I have no appetite and find myself almost choking on the disgusting food.
What's disgusting about that?
What do you want to eat, junk?
What's disgusting about that?
What do you want to eat, junk?
Maybe it isn't disgusting food, but when you have to force it down your face every 3 hours, every day of the week, it does start to become unpleasant.
I definately think it is time to lose some body fat if you are over what you see as desirable...I think it's Mr Berardi who said that the leaner you are, the higher ratio of muscle:fat you will gain anyway, so it's better to be leaner when bulking.
Perhaps from now on you could track your daily food intake and we can adjust accordingly each day?
Maybe it isn't disgusting food, but when you have to force it down your face every 3 hours, every day of the week, it does start to become unpleasant.
I hear you, but I guess the key to that is variety. There are loads of different food sources...
I definately think it is time to lose some body fat if you are over what you see as desirable...I think it's Mr Berardi who said that the leaner you are, the higher ratio of muscle:fat you will gain anyway, so it's better to be leaner when bulking.
Perhaps from now on you could track your daily food intake and we can adjust accordingly each day?
That is basically what I want to do.... Lose some bodyfat, and then start bulking again.
I've never tried to lose fat before, so this is going to be a new challenge. I don't want to obsess over calories, bodyfat percentages and all that. I just wanna eat a little less food, do more cardio, and increase the volume of my workouts. I like the layout and exercise selection of my current routine, so I will keep that but just increase the reps.
To start with when losing fat, I personally cut out any simple carbs (coming from the usual suspects...sweets, weight gainers, etc.), but DON'T change the amount of protein you take in
To start with when losing fat, I personally cut out any simple carbs (coming from the usual suspects...sweets, weight gainers, etc.), but DON'T change the amount of protein you take in
What is wrong with weight gainers?
My carbs come mainly from wholemeal bread, brown rice, brown pasta/spaghetti and milk.
What is wrong with weight gainers?
My carbs come mainly from wholemeal bread, brown rice, brown pasta/spaghetti and milk.
The name itself is self explanatory
The name itself is self explanatory
Weight gainers are just protein and carbohydrates.... A bowl of chicken and pasta is a 'weight gainer' too!
Some weight gainers are full of sugar, but others aren't.
malto=simple carbs=simple sugar
malto=simple carbs=simple sugar
?
? Malto or Maltodextrin is a sugar and is prominent in most weight gainers. It promotes a high insulin response and is therefore likely to result in lipogenesis.
Malto or Maltodextrin is a sugar and is prominent in most weight gainers. It promotes a high insulin response and is therefore likely to result in lipogenesis.
Is it counted as a sugar on the nutritional values?
Insulin response, feeling of satiety, etc.
I would opt for more satisfying food...E.g. oats cooked in water and flavoured with splenda with a meat based salad - this could be 1/2 the kcal content of the weight gainer, but twice as satisfying
Do you see where I'm coming from?
Check this out, alongside anything wrote by John Berardi
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460638
I tried a higher volume version of my current routine today and it was bloody hard. II couldn't hack the burn on the OHP. The burn in my arse on deadlifts was just too much. The burn in my forearms screwed up my front squats and I felt like vomiting. It was just a nightmare.
I am in very poor condition, it must be said. All that strength training has done me no good really. I can do a few heavy reps and sit around for three minutes. So can everyone else. But what I can't do is do 3x10 with 1 minute rest intervals for six exercises in under an hour. I need to sort my self out.
At the moment I just can't handle that sort of volume. I have to cut the volume and get used to it over time. Deadlifts have to be dropped for the time being as they screw me up for the remainder of the workout. I will add them back in when I get myself in reasonably good condition.
I'm not gonna give up. This is how I must train if I want to make progress.
Just for the record, I lifted a total of 6320KG in today's workout which lasted around 40 mintues.
On how many exercises? Thats about right for 1, 2 at most.
On how many exercises? Thats about right for 1, 2 at most.
How do you work that out?
You should be squatting/deadlifting/compound moving in general in excess of 3000kg per exercise if you a BBer.
EDIT: Narc' etc: This infomation is aimed at Mark and Mark only. If you msn me with any crappy questions I will have PK ban you.
You should be squatting/deadlifting/compound moving in general in excess of 3000kg per exercise if you a BBer.
Mate, that would require front squatting and deadlifting 100kg for 3x10.... with 1 minute rest intervals. That is what I would have to have done to get 6000kg from two exercises!
So do it. If it takes you 2 weeks or 20. DO IT.
OVER-****ING-COME.
EDIT: Narc' etc: This infomation is aimed at Mark and Mark only. If you msn me with any crappy questions I will have PK ban you.
LMAO, no fear
bunnyluva
08-03-2005, 23:37
I tried a higher volume version of my current routine today and it was bloody hard.
Didn't we tell you to take a week off :014:
And come up with a new plan?
Phil
Didn't we tell you to take a week off :014:
And come up with a new plan?
Phil
I took 6 days off!
And that is my plan. Just because it didn't work, it doesn't mean it is a bad plan! It means that it didn't work because it relies on being fit and having good endurance....
I don't have good endurance with weights because I've been pratting around with 3x3, 3x5 etc for the last year.
BengDogg
09-03-2005, 06:58
Asses what you want from weight training then and do it, if you want edurance train for it, i personally keep my edurance training seperate but you go for what you desire!!!
bunnyluva
09-03-2005, 08:40
Mark, I wasn't having a go at you. You see to be jumping from one thing to another. I agree with Bengs statement too.
Weights are the tools used building strength and size, CV equipment is suited for fitness, endurance goals.
Where do you want to be in the next 3 months? more strength, cut up for the summer? or gain more mass? or be fitter?
Phil
Check this out mate: http://t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=EF43623F1B52C83F8DB49EC1 CF773D8A.titan?article=04-073-training
I've read very good things about this in terms of hypertrophy...it uses relatively high volume and frequency with lots of room for variety, so I think you should enjoy
Asses what you want from weight training then and do it, if you want edurance train for it, i personally keep my edurance training seperate but you go for what you desire!!!
I don't want endurance for the sake of having it. I want it specifically for the purpose of allowing me to lift lots of weight in relatively short workouts. I believe that that is what I need to do to make progress now. Most bodybuilders train with high volume. They don't turn up to the gym, do a triple then sit on their arse for 3 minutes before doing it again.
And the only reason that I am finding it difficult to endure this is because I am in awful condition.
I want to finish each workout having lifted 10,000kg... Not 2844kg like my last full body "strength" workout.
I want to finish each workout having lifted 10,000kg... Not 2844kg like my last full body "strength" workout
Excelent. Mark is on the right track here, so people should leave him to do it.
10 tonnes per workout! Awesome goal mate, good luck to you.
My current plan for triceps (the only thing I can train) is this:
3x20, twice per day, Db floor press.
Currently using 12.5kg, adding 1kg/week.
So in 5 weeks I would be using 17.5kg/hand, for 3x20, twice a day, every day.
Week 5 total volume: 17.5x2x7x3x20=14700kg/week. On my triceps.
~~~~
17" arms here we come.
10 tonnes per workout! Awesome goal mate, good luck to you.
Cheers!
It sounds alot but it shouldn't be too difficult.
If I did 3x10 with the following weights and exercises I would get 7050kg...
Front Squat: 50kg
OHP: 35kg.
Deadlift: 80kg
One arm row: 25kg.
Dumbbell Curls: 10kg.
I also do tricep dips in that workout, but according to Robert 7x5 with tricep dips would technically count as 0kg! Technically the weight shouldn't be counted, but if I was to do my dips on some strange dip/pushdown machine I would be allowed to count the weight... So in my mind, pushing my bodyweight up 35 times does count for something!
Each of those weights and exercises on their own are easy, but when placed into the context of a full body workout they become a lot harder.
Anyway, I've definitely a lot of hard work ahead!
Dips and chins don't count as weight lifted if its just youor bodyweight. You don't include 2/3 your body weight when you squat do you......?
Dips and chins don't count as weight lifted if its just youor bodyweight. You don't include 2/3 your body weight when you squat do you......?
Technically they don't count. But 35 dips is 35 dips, not 0.
I would count bodyweight shifted as 'weight'!
Why can't some 200lb+ people do dips or chins? Because they are too heavy!
I would count bodyweight shifted as 'weight'!
Why can't some 200lb+ people do dips or chins? Because they are too heavy!
Exactly.
It's kind of like saying that if someone does a set of handstand pushups, they haven't really lifted any weight... They would have technically lifted more by doing overhead press with two pencils!
Technically they don't count. But 35 dips is 35 dips, not 0.
If you want to cheat your way to that 10000kg then thats oyur pitfall, not mine.
9/03.
Rowing: 30 minutes. 5860metres.
11/03.
Back Squat: 75kg. 10x5 (30s rest intervals).
Dumbbell Bench: 22.5kg - 10/10/5.
TBar Row: 40kg - 10/10/8.
Parallel Bar Tricep Dips: 7x3. 2x2. 1x0. (30s rest intervals)
Trap Rows: 35kg - 10/10/10.
D Curls: 10kg. (L: 10/10/6) (R: 10/10/5)
Total Lifted: 7555kg (+25 tricep dips)
Not a bad workout. The squats went well. I had to lay down for five minutes after though! Doing front squats AND deadlifts next workout is gonna kill me! I will have to do one near the start of the workout, and the other near the end; otherwise all my upperbody compounds will suffer.
The burn on bench and t-bar rows was too much again. In theory I could have got all the reps, but for some reason I'm struggling to cope with the burn (probably because I haven't done volume training for months).
Bloody good workout that!
I would do DLs at the beginning and Front Squats towards the end if you want to do it like that...I've never done DLs after anything else!:023:
12/3.
Rowing: 40 minutes. 7887 metres.
14/3.
Rowing: 40 minutes. 7928 metres.
15/3.
OHP: 35kg - 10/10/10/10.
Deadlift: 75kg - 10x5. (40second rest intervals)
Dumbbell Bench: 22.5kg - 10/10/5/5.
Front Squat: 50kg - 5/5/5/3....... (40second rest intervals)
Dumbbell Row: 22.5kg: (L+R) 10/10/10.
Dumbbell Curl: 10kg: (L+R) 10/9/6.
Woohoo! Definitely an improvement upon last weeks attempt at this.
For dumbbell bench I didn't aim for 4x10, I was aiming for 3x10 but decided to do a fourth set because I didn't want to push to failure on the third set. Basically, I think the extra volume is better than one or two extra reps.
Front squats kicked my arse, but only because of what had come before it. My legs were fine, it was just that I couldn't catch my breath between sets. That is no problem though: The more conditioned I get, the easier it will get to cope with the 30-40 second RI's.
Total Lifted: 9250kg
16/3.
Rowing: 40 mins. 7890 metres.
I think I'm going to start updating this on a weekly basis, so I can include details of diet, cardio, and weights in one post rather than lots of little posts. It will give it more continuity for those that are interested in my training.
I did that in an old journal. Not worth it. Too much hassle. You have to keep goign back 10 pages everytime you want to look at what poeple have commented on.
Best bet is to make a request to keep banter/discussion to a minimum.
I did that in an old journal. Not worth it. Too much hassle. You have to keep goign back 10 pages everytime you want to look at what poeple have commented on.
Best bet is to make a request to keep banter/discussion to a minimum.
If people don't comment, it is a waste of my time!
Actually, if you look back, almost everyone comments. You just choose to ignore almost every sinlge peice of advice your given, thats all.
Actually, if you look back, almost everyone comments. You just choose to ignore almost every sinlge peice of advice your given, thats all.
To be fair, I don't usually get advice that is tailored to my goals, do I? This site is dominated by powerlifters, and that is this sites major weakness. It would be better if more bodybuilders used this site. Nearly all the journals here are strength/powerlifting! There is rarely a post in the bodybuilding section either.
Knighty offers me good advice and I take it on board. He directed me to a nurition article and as a consequence I have started eating oatmeal in place of brown bread. Bunnykilla also offered good advice. He told me to pursue the goals that I want to achieve, not those that others feel I should acheive. That is what I am now doing.
So, I do accept advice. On other occasions I evaluate advice and consider it to be unsuitable for me.
BengDogg
18-03-2005, 20:31
i TOO SAID GO FOR YOUR GOALS MARK, bbers are a minority here but it is all good, as summer is on its way i am doing a bit more activity (not exactly full on cardio but yknow) and a little more volume to keep the fat away a bit, there is still some bber in me, its no bad thing
Ok, I've decided not to update on a weekly basis. I will just post what I did each day, but label it "Day 1", "Day 2" etc, so it is simple to follow.
I will start from what I did today.
Day 1:
60s RI's unless stated otherwise...
Dumbbell Bench: 22.5kg - 10/10/10.
Back Squat: 77.5kg - 9x5. 1x3. (30-40s RI's)
T Bar Row: 40kg - 10/10/6. :mad:
Parallel Tricep Dips: BW - 10x3. (30s RI's)
Trap Row: 37kg - 10/10/8.
Barbell Curl: 20kg - 10/8/5.
Day 2: Low-moderate intensity cardio. Rowing. 40 minutes. 8270 metres.
Definite progress here. I racked up a few hundred more metres than last time, but this didn't feel more difficult.
Day 2: Low-moderate intensity cardio. Rowing. 40 minutes. 8296 metres.
My guess is because you only used 22.5kg for DBBench and less than 80kg for squats. I know your upping the volume, but 'cos the load is lower it might mean you less 'batterd' when it comes to CV?
bunnyluva
20-03-2005, 22:45
40 mins is a lot of rowing, why all the cardio, you cutting?
Phil
My guess is because you only used 22.5kg for DBBench and less than 80kg for squats. I know your upping the volume, but 'cos the load is lower it might mean you less 'batterd' when it comes to CV?
Maybe it is because I'm getting fitter?
The weights workouts have nothing to do with it. And if anything, these workouts are far harder than the 3x5, 3x3 etc that I was doing previously. 77.5kg may not be a lot of weight for squats, but it is* when you are doing 10x5 with 30 second RI's.
*It is hard for me anyway.
40 mins is a lot of rowing, why all the cardio, you cutting?
Phil
I'm trying to get rid of some bodyfat. I have been deluding myself in a way; believing that most of what I gained has been muscle. I looked in the mirror recently and just realised that I've been a fool.... ignoring cardio, eating too many calories, doing low volume workouts all the time etc.
The rowing is low intensity, so it puts very little strain on my recovery from weights. If anything, it helps reduce the DOMS. I'm aiming for 4 40 minute sessions per week.
Day 4:
OHP: 36kg - 10/10/10/10.
Deadlift: 77.5kg - 10x5. (30s RI's)
Dumbbell Bench: 22.5kg - 10/10/9.
One arm row: 23.5kg - 10/10/10.
D Curl: 10kg - 10/9/6.
Not bad, but I still couldn't fit the front squats in. That workout took an hour, so it is unlikely that I can fit 10x5 front squats in next time. However, I can do 3x10. I took too much time between exercises in this workout really.
how come you couldn't fit Front Squats in?
Did you run out of time?
how come you couldn't fit Front Squats in?
Did you run out of time?
Yeah. I had planned to do them at the end, but when I got to the end I had already been training for an hour. I need to cut the rest time between exercises.
Do you not train for more than an hour then??
Do you not train for more than an hour then??
Not usually. I suppose I could extend this workout by 5-10 minutes for the time being.
Nothing wrong with extending the workout by 5-10 minutes to fit in that extra work
Nothing wrong with extending the workout by 5-10 minutes to fit in that extra work
I think I will do that actually.
I really need an extra 10 minutes right now for the front squats. I want to do 3x10 but with longer rest intervals so I can use some more weight. I am new to front squats, so I haven't had a chance to improve my strength on this exercise. I don't want to be using 40kg for 3x10, so I will rest for 2minutes so I can use 50kg.
bunnyluva
22-03-2005, 14:39
Day 4:
OHP: 36kg - 10/10/10/10.
Deadlift: 77.5kg - 10x5. (30s RI's)
Dumbbell Bench: 22.5kg - 10/10/9.
One arm row: 23.5kg - 10/10/10.
D Curl: 10kg - 10/9/6.
Does 10x5 mean 10 sets of 5 reps? That a hell of a lot.
What not try your practice front sqats at the beginning, will help warm you up, trying to learn correct form at the end of the session might be hard esp with your core already tired from the session.
Front squats
oh press
deadlift
db bench
row
curl
If i were using high reps then I'd consider 3 sets to be the max number per exercise. IMO
Phil
Does 10x5 mean 10 sets of 5 reps? That a hell of a lot.
Phil
Yes. 10 sets of 5 reps. I do the same for back squats. It is a lot, but that is the point of my routine. It is about lifting a large total of weights, rather than heavy weights in each set. So, for example, I could do 3x5 deadlift with 110kg and 3 minute rest intervals, but I would only have lifted 1650kg. If I did 80kg with 10x5 and 30 second rest intervals I would have lifted 4000kg in around the same time.
BengDogg
22-03-2005, 14:53
Does 10x5 mean 10 sets of 5 reps? That a hell of a lot.
What not try your practice front sqats at the beginning, will help warm you up, trying to learn correct form at the end of the session might be hard esp with your core already tired from the session.
Front squats
oh press
deadlift
db bench
row
curl
If i were using high reps then I'd consider 3 sets to be the max number per exercise. IMO
Phil
I think this would eba good idea front squats are a killer and if your doing them with your high intensity low rest type training you will be sweating buckets afterwards
bunnyluva
22-03-2005, 15:01
Yes. 10 sets of 5 reps. I do the same for back squats. It is a lot, but that is the point of my routine. It is about lifting a large total of weights, rather than heavy weights in each set. So, for example, I could do 3x5 deadlift with 110kg and 3 minute rest intervals, but I would only have lifted 1650kg. If I did 80kg with 10x5 and 30 second rest intervals I would have lifted 4000kg in around the same time.
I can't really see why you want follow this method of adding up all the weight shifted during your routine, if you have a link handy i'd look at it and perhaps change my mind.
Whats wrong with good old progressive resistance? working towards your top no of reps, then adding a bit weight and working back up, then adding a bit weight and working back up etc etc
Phil
I can't really see why you want follow this method of adding up all the weight shifted during your routine, if you have a link handy i'd look at it and perhaps change my mind.
Whats wrong with good old progressive resistance? working towards your top no of reps, then adding a bit weight and working back up, then adding a bit weight and working back up etc etc
Phil
This is progressive restistance. I add weight to each exercise each week for a predetermined set/rep scheme. It is just a high volume routine.
The total weight lifted is important. If you could choose to squat 2000kg or 4000kg in 10 minutes, which would you choose?
Day 5:
Calf Raise: 90kg - 10x5.
Crunches: 1.25kg - 4x10.
Side Bend: 22.5kg - 3x10.
I shouldn't be doing weights today, it should be a cardio day.... But I have a squat craving, so I'm gonna do weights instead. :047: I am recovering well from these workouts, although I feel that recovery will take longer when I learn to push harder in these workouts.
Day 6:
Dumbbell Bench: 23.5kg - 10/10/10.
Back Squat: 80kg - 9x5. 1x3. (30 second rest interval)
Parallel Tricep Dip: 2.5kg - 9x3. 1x2.(30 second rest interval)
Narrow Row: 40kg - 10/10/8.
Trap Row: 37kg - 10/10/8.
Barbell Curl: 20kg - 10/9/6.
Bench and tri dips were good. My form let me down somewhat on the squats. I need to make sure my form is perfect at that weight before increasing.
No progress on the rowing movements, but my form was alot stricter today.
BengDogg
23-03-2005, 18:07
is that 48 squats @ 80kg? If it is damn!!! Your a volume monster!
Nice squats. Your making the budding PL's on here look weak. Well done. :)
is that 48 squats @ 80kg? If it is damn!!! Your a volume monster!
10x5 is fun! I wasn't getting held back by lack of breath today, which was good. I don't think my form was perfect though. On the third set I almost fell backwards, and from then on I fussing about my form. I didn't get the full 50 reps anyway, so I can use this weight again next week.
Day 7:
Rowing: 40 minutes. 8452 metres.
Day 8: Off.
I have a tough workout scheduled for tomorrow. I'm upping the deadlift by 7.5kg and giving all I have got to get 10x5.
Day 9:
Rest Intervals 60s unless stated otherwise.
OHP: 37kg - 10/10/10/10.
Deadlift: 85kg - 5/5/5/5/5/5/4/5/4/4. (30-50s RIs)
D Bench: 23kg - 10/10/7/5.
One Arm Row: 24kg. (R: 10/10/10) (L: 10/10/9)
D Curl: 10kg. (R: 10/10/6) (L: 10/10/6).
Front Squat: 50kg - 7x5.
EDIT: Excellent workout. I am pleased with my progress. I increased the deadlift by 7.5kg and only missed 3 reps. I pushed myself to the limit. The bar actually slipped from my hands on the last rep. I am confident that I can get all the reps next time.
The front squats were easy at 50kg. I underestimated what I am capable of. I will up it to 55kg next time.
I am getting used to the burn on the high rep sets too. I hate it, but I can now push on through it.
PikeKing
26-03-2005, 23:39
hows the mass coming?
hows the mass coming?
I'm not sure really. I'm losing fat from the cardio as I am looking a bit leaner. I'm not expecting much mass at the moment as I'm still settling into this routine.
Day 11.
Calf Raises: 92.5kg - 10x5.
Rowing: 40 minutes. 8265 metres.
I have a workout today. I am angry as my supplements have not arrived on time. I really need whey + viper for pre/post-workout nutrition on these workouts. It really annoys me. Almost everytime I order from a certain company I have problems and end up going a week with no supplements!
Today is gonna be tough. I am uncertain of my squat form, so I am doubting myself on getting the 10x5 this time. On the other hand, I think that I'm gonna give it 100% and get 10x5 and possibly more! We will know which is true in a few hours!
bunnyluva
29-03-2005, 13:46
You don't really need the supplements tho. Have some fruit pre workout and a tin of tuna after. Eat a big steak with some veg for you tea tonight and have some cottage cheese before you go to bed.
Good luck with those squats.
Phil
You don't really need the supplements tho. Have some fruit pre workout and a tin of tuna after. Eat a big steak with some veg for you tea tonight and have some cottage cheese before you go to bed.
A tin of tuna doesn't digest quick enough!
Good luck with those squats.
Phil
Cheers!
Eggs are pretty fast absorbing IIRC. If I'm out of whey I tend to have a bowl of scrabled eggs instead and that's been fine as far as I could tell. If you want something pre-workout I find bananas are best.
Whey - yes
Viper - no
Personally, when cutting I wouldn't have simple carbs pre/post workout...too kcal heavy and not sustained enough
Personally I would do something like:
Complex carb and solid protein based meal
[Wait at least 1 hour]
TRAIN
Down whey in water post training
Complex carb and solid protein based meal
Whey - yes
Viper - no
Personally, when cutting I wouldn't have simple carbs pre/post workout...too kcal heavy and not sustained enough
Personally I would do something like:
Complex carb and solid protein based meal
[Wait at least 1 hour]
TRAIN
Down whey in water post training
Complex carb and solid protein based meal
I think I need the simple carbs after this kind of workout. If I was doing something like 3x5 and a total of 15 sets I wouldn't bother. The simple carbs will help me recover.
They will help you recover, but I would want my blood sugar levels stable after a grueling session - think tortoise and hare
Day 12:
Dumbbell Bench: 25kg - 10/10/8.
Back Squat: 81kg - 10x5. (30-50s rest intervals)
Parallel Tricep Dip: 3kg - 3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/2/2. (30s rest intervals)
Narrow Row: 40kg - 10/10/10.
Trap Row: 37.5kg - 10/7/7.
Barbell Curl: 20kg - 10/10/7.
Day 13:
Rowing: 40 minutes. 8804 metres.
This felt good. I just kept motoring on all the way through and at no point did I feel very short of breath!
Day 14:
Rowing: 40 minutes. 8672 metres.
I've got a tough workout today. I'm upping the weight on the deadlifts and front squats by quite a bit. If I get all my reps, I will have shifted over 11,000kg in 60-70 minutes. I'm feeling very confident. I'm gonna do it.
As a little green man once said mate "Do or do not, there is no try"
I've got a tough workout today. I'm upping the weight on the deadlifts and front squats by quite a bit. If I get all my reps, I will have shifted over 11,000kg in 60-70 minutes. I'm feeling very confident. I'm gonna do it.Thats more like it!
Day 15:
OHP: 38.5kg - 10/10/10/10.
Deadlift: 87.5kg - 5/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/4/3. (30-40s rest intervals)
Dumbbell Bench: 23kg - 10/10/7.
One Arm Row: 24.5kg - 10/10/9.
Dumbbell Curl: 10kg - 10/10/7.
Front Squat: 55kg - 5/5/5/4/4.
I didn't achieve the 11,000kg total that I wanted, but this was a very, very hard workout. Things started very well. I added 1.5kg to the OHP and got all 40 reps and could possibly have got more. Things got more difficult with the deadlift. My callouses on my left hand have been painful all week and I was in pain pulling the bar. Nevertheless, I got the first 5 sets sticking strictly to the 30 second rest intervals. It got too hard from there on. My hand was hurting and my forearms were burning. I wanted to give up, but I kept going and did what I could.
I was burnt out after those deadlifts. My forearms were burning, so I had to rest longer before the bench press. They were burning again after the bench, so I had to rest longer before the rows!
The front squats were spoilt because I felt I was going to puke if I continued!
All weights will stay the same next week, apart from the OHP, so I will hopefully be able to get more reps.
Day 16: Off.
Day 17:
Rowing: 40 minutes. 8609 metres.
Day 18:
60 second rest intervals unless stated otherwise.
Dumbbell Bench: 25kg - 10/10/8.
Back Squat: 82.5kg - 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/4/5/4. (30-45s RI's)
Parallel Tricep Dips: 3.5kg - 3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/2. (30s RI's)
Narrow Row: 41kg - 10/10/8.
Trap Row: 37.5kg - 10/10/6.
Barbell Curl: 20kg - 10/10/9.
Day 19:
Rowing: 40 minutes. 8965 metres.
Day 20:
Practiced form on back squats. I am really paranoid about my form. :013:
Day 21:
Rest intervals 60s unless stated otherwise.
OHP: 40kg - 10/10/10/6.
Deadlift: 5/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/5/4. (30-50s RI)
Dumbbell Bench: 23kg - 10/10/8/5.
Front Squats: 55kg - 5/5/5/5/4/4.
One Arm Row: 24.5kg - (R:10/10/10) (L:10/10/8)
Dumbbell Curls: 10kg - 10/10/10.
Not bad. Not much to say really. I missed a few reps on OHP because I had to increase from 38.5 to 40kg. I got a few more on deadlift than I did last time. One more rep on the dumbbell bench, plus an additional set of 5. My left arm just gave up on the dumbbell rows. I have no idea why. And I have finally hit 3x10 on the dumbbell curls. I will increase by 0.5kg for next session.
The front squats were ok, but I'm getting so paranoid about my form. I'm gonna practice over the next week with lighter weights and get it perfect for next session. I'm even more worried about my back squat form. It is driving me mad.
Mark, what weight did you use for deadlift?
Mark, what weight did you use for deadlift?
87.5kg.
I am having a seriously hard time believing you when you say your putting in 101% into your training. 10x5 or not, thats shit, Mark.
Now I don't want you to get all defensive. I am not attackign you personally, I just want you to get soem perspective. Narc' is lighter than you and has a similar<read:lower, deadlift 1RM. Have a look at his deadlifting and you'll notice that even when he does 20x1 he uses in excess of 140kg.
I am not having a go at you, I am trying to get you to acheive what you ARE capable of. No one on earth can be that shit at deadlifting given your time in training.
Sorry if thats a bit 'ala J5' mate, but it needs to be said.
Also, I did that squat video for you today. When your on msn I will give it to you.
Now I don't want you to get all defensive. I am not attackign you personally, I just want you to get soem perspective. Narc' is lighter than you and has a similar<read:lower, deadlift 1RM. Have a look at his deadlifting and you'll notice that even when he does 20x1 he uses in excess of 140kg.
Fair enough, but to be fair, narcissus trains his deadlift with low reps all the time. 10x5 with double overhand grip and 30s rest intervals is a world apart from singles with mixed grip and you know it. Comparing the two is just silly.
The difference is not worlds apart. (A few weeks ago) I could rep 160x5 no probs and may even be able to 10x5 it given a week or two. If you compare that to yours as a %age then the picture becomes very clear. 160kg is 70-80% my 1RM. Your DL 1RM is/was in the region of 150kg IIRC and so using 90kg is roughly 60%. I know 10 sets is a lot, but doing 5's with essentially your 12-15RM is not going to be as productive as doing 5's with say your 8RM. Thats what you should be aiming for.
I am aware of your goals and I think your doing the right thing trying to up the total volume of your sessions as opposed to strictly weight lifted. However, at some point load becomes important.
My advice to you is to use a 5x5 weight and work on making that 10x5, not using a 10x5 weight and work on getting that up.
115x5x5>6x5>7x5>8x5>9x5>10x5 is a much better progression than using 90x10x5 and trying to up the weight gradually.
Thoughts?
The difference is not worlds apart.
I suppose it depends what sort of rest intervals Narcissus was using. If he was using 5-10 seconds, then perhaps they are not so different, but anything more than 30 seconds and his rest time alone would have been 10 minutes!
Personally I just rest as long as changing the plates and catching my breath takes. That starts as about 5 seconds and ends up about 20 seconds for 20x1.
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