View Full Version : Nutritional Philosophy
What is yours? Lots of anything? Paleo-esque? Just interested really.
I'm still using IF (intermittant fasting). Been eating like this for around 2-3yrs now.
How does that look? Warrior diet esque?
PikeKing
10-04-2011, 09:18
eat
How does that look? Warrior diet esque?
Most days I have my first meal of the day @ 2-3pm, I'll be in the gym for 5ish and have the rest of my cals PWO until about 10pm. Then I don't eat till 2-3pm the next day. Cals are set on goals, but workout days tend to be higher carbs and cals.
The only day the above differs is Saturday (during rugby season) where I get more grub in pre game.
I was never a big traditional breakfast person anyway and I'm shit in the mornings so this free's me up for other things. The fast has supposed health benefits like insulin sensitivity etc too, and I find digestion is better eating like this too.
It's not for everyone, but I like having big meals PWO and if you're on a diet you feel like you're eating relatively lots of food on lower cals due to the restricted eating window.
More info here if your interested at all Dave: www.leangains.com
Aside from that: get enough protein, enough fish oil, as long as your diet isn't solely based around junk then it doesn't matter where your cals come from within reason. I try to avoid masses of wheat based stuff, as gluten ain't too good for you, a bacon buttie on white bread is still heaven mind.
I think its an interesting question that has sort of stemmed from the constant mocking of each other in the Exeter training group for being 'fat'.
In an ideal world I think everybody would want to be lean - regardless of how much muscle they wanted to carry - and it seems to me that a lot of us probably undo some of the good work in the gym by sub-optimal nutrition - most likely because cooking is not as cool as lifting.
I think its an interesting question that has sort of stemmed from the constant mocking of each other in the Exeter training group for being 'fat'.
In an ideal world I think everybody would want to be lean - regardless of how much muscle they wanted to carry - and it seems to me that a lot of us probably undo some of the good work in the gym by sub-optimal nutrition - most likely because cooking is not as cool as lifting.
The bolded bit rings very true IMO. For a while on here we had Tim and Sam et al on the "Swole Supremacy" bandwagon - put weight on regardless to lift more. Funny how both have backtracked on this substantially with Sam essentially working for a BB'er type bod, and even Narc having done and currently talking about dieting in future.
There's no need to massively complicate nutrition mind, and I've learnt that most approaches you read are just fads and nothing (in terms of your average gym rat) is more important than getting enough protein and total cals to grow, health is another thing mind.Most people could do a lot worse than to base their diet around lots of meat, and as much fruit and veg as they could muster, nothing ground breaking.
And I personally don't see the point in getting massively fat anymore, I'd rather be able to look like I lift and be able to have a decent degree of general "fitness" alongside being as strong as I can.
LWStrong
10-04-2011, 12:03
My philosophy right now is to eat a whole load of shit, over 3200kcals at least every days and over 200g protein. This method is no doubt adding fat, but I see it as being the fastest way for me to get bigger and stronger, it's such a slow process to add lean body mass only, especially without chemical assistance.
As soon as I get to 86/87kg I'll get back to a more sensible regime and look to settle at around 83kg. It'll be amazing when I can start eating healthier again to be honest, I'm fed up of feeling like shit.
My nutritional philosophy when I get to ~87kg will be high protein, fairly high fat and quite low carb (especially on non training days), It worked for me when I was a lean mean fighting bastard so it will work again.
Having gone down the eat shit to get massive route - it doesnt work for me because I felt so god awful that it killed off any desire that I did have to eat. At the moment I'm trying to pretty much do the above - focus on meat/eggs and veg/fruit. It isn't hard at all. To try and keep the intake at a decent level I tend to hit the blender, using a recommendation of the PN website for the last few days - ice, fruit, spinach, protein powder. Tastes good, lots of good stuff in.
I need to develop more effective ways to make eating easier. I think I'm going to go down the pre-cooking meat route and get hold of a microwave. No effort or thinking involved.
I use them roasting bags with flavoring and cook up 8 chicken breasts at a time, gives me enough for 3-4days depending on what I'm eating. Big vats of chilli and bolognaise type creations, meatloaf, burgers etc just need a bit of imagination. Something I regularly do is make more tea than I need, then take a portion to work for lunch the next day
LWStrong
10-04-2011, 14:12
Roasting bags hey... where do you get them from?
Like you say I'd probably smash 10 - 20 in a dish, flavor, cook in the oven then bag and freeze as needed. Take an hourish for the entire operation.
Roasting bags hey... where do you get them from?
Tesco's. Those Maggi or Coleman's ones, you roast the chicken in them with flavoring, keeps it nice and tender and moist, no dry chicken breasts here. Bout 90p. :038:
LWStrong
10-04-2011, 14:34
I think I'll be utilizing this bag system when I'm back at uni after easter, sounds simple and cheap.
**** that actually, I'll put Dbol and Anavar in the roasting bags instead.
JonnyJames
10-04-2011, 15:08
high protein, fairly high fat and quite low carb (especially on non training days)
Change that to 'medium carb' and that's how I eat now. About 1.5g P/lb bodyweight, 'P+F' meals each time apart from my peri-workout shakes and post gym meal - currently having a high carb breakfast the day after training or as a 2nd meal on the weekends.
I too found that eating everything in sight made me feel awful and did nothing but make me fat. Chemical assistance aside, this time last year I weighed as much as I do now but with a 38" waist.
I have to say 'medium carb' as I tend to have 2-3 shakes a day (protein/yoghurt/cottage cheese/FFM/berries/banana/green veg/some kind of oil) and they work out as about 40-50g C a pop.
I get about 10 portions of fruit or veg a day but tend to only have 2-3 solid meals as I have almost no appetite.
A hangover from my erstwhile slavish devotion to Scrawny to Brawny is that I have enshrined the concept of the 'cheat meal' - PWO today, for example, was a large big mac meal with a strawberry milkshake and 6 chicken nuggets.
Through experimentation I know that the most important thing for me is ease and saving time. During term time I regularly run out of time doing things, so meal pre time is minimized.
Thus my plan after I get back to uni after Easter is to pre-cook a significant amount of meat to save time. I've seen people divide up portions of veg too...might be worth thinking about if I obtain some tuppaware. Then the only thing to need cooking is going to be rice/potato which takes no time really.
What is everyone's take on peri-workout nutrition? This seems to be an area where opinions differ from its no big deal to take BCAA's or you will die...
I'm lazy as **** so ease is key for me. I down a shake for breakfast and get a decent lunh at the work canteen, but when cooking for myself it's usually summat like:
Protein - I aim to have a pile of pork loin or steak pre-marinaded in the fridge. Steak takes about 6 minutes to cook and I do the pork in bulk and microwave it at a later date. Mince for meatloaf/burgers/etc is always handy too. I eat shit loads of ommelletes and scrambled eggs also, usually with veg mixed in and a pile of mozzerella or similar.
Veg tends to be premixed salad and frozen brocolli and spinach, throw that in the microwave while eggs or steak are cooking.
Carbs are usually wholemeal pittas, wraps or microwave rice.
That's pretty much it at the moment, although having said that I have just spent the weekend nailing burgers, pizzas and wings.
JonnyJames
10-04-2011, 19:08
Thus my plan after I get back to uni after Easter is to pre-cook a significant amount of meat to save time.
Yesterday I butterflied a bunch of chicken breasts and marinated them, and made some beef burgers, this afternoon I cooked all those in batches on the grill pan. I also made an Italianate beef stew, which is currently in the oven. That's... in the region of 8 portions of meat and 8 almost complete meals for about 90-120 mins work.
What is everyone's take on peri-workout nutrition? This seems to be an area where opinions differ from its no big deal to take BCAA's or you will die...
Due to the aforementioned S2B influence, I've always had both a pre/during and post workout shake. The arguments for doing so, both in that book and other things I've read, seem incontravertible, at least to my layman's eyes.
I've been through stages of both/one/neither. By far and away the best around workout thing ive used is biotest's surge - it tastes like heaven and makes you feel awesome immediately afterwards.
What is everyone's take on peri-workout nutrition? This seems to be an area where opinions differ from its no big deal to take BCAA's or you will die...
Doesn't matter.
People were getting jacked long before whey and dextrose or BCAA or any other hydrolysed collagen or similar around workouts. If you struggle to get enough cals sandwiched around your workout or don't have time for meals I can understand the convenience of shakes, just realize they're no better than real food.
Of far greater importance is hitting your macro and calorie goals for the day, consistently.
I've been through stages of both/one/neither. By far and away the best around workout thing ive used is biotest's surge - it tastes like heaven and makes you feel awesome immediately afterwards.
An Objective Comparison of Chocolate Milk and Surge Recovery. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery.html)
LWStrong
10-04-2011, 19:22
Doesn't matter.
People were getting jacked long before whey and dextrose or BCAA or any other hydrolysed collagen or similar around workouts. If you struggle to get enough cals sandwiched around your workout or don't have time for meals I can understand the convenience of shakes, just realize they're no better than real food.
Of far greater importance is hitting your STEROID INTAKE goals for the day, consistently.
I agree.
JonnyJames
10-04-2011, 19:24
Awesome.
JonnyJames
10-04-2011, 19:25
DBOL > Surge
New sig?
An Objective Comparison of Chocolate Milk and Surge Recovery. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery.html)
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/members/faq.php?faq=faq_vb_pwo#faq_faq_vb_chocmilk
I don't buy that at all - firstly because drinking milk without eating something at the same time ****s me up badly.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/members/faq.php?faq=faq_vb_pwo#faq_faq_vb_chocmilk
I don't buy that at all - firstly because drinking milk without eating something at the same time ****s me up badly.
Given you've quoted BROradi, I know who I'm backing in the science stakes here.
Unless you have a specific issue with lactose, milk appears to be as good if not better than a lot of these so called "recovery shakes"
I've read the chocolate milk link before. Coming to think of it you probably posted it the last time. My opinion is that personally I'm not great with milk and so the chocolate milk route isn't ideal for me.
My liking for surge is significantly based on its awesome taste - which is better than most other things I can think of to drink - and its mixability which is also awesome. I am sure that it is really no better than a lot of other things to drink PWO - whey and malto for instance (or as you say, choc milk if you can handle it). If I lived in the US I would definitely use it though.
plateau2
11-04-2011, 08:26
Lots of protein at least 180g...
Avoid processed foods for the majority of eats
Avoid simple sugars for the majority of eats
Lots of fruit, veg, healthy fats, meat
Don't go crazy on carbs
Eat whole foods rather than shakes where possible
Don't eat foods you don't enjoy
Lots of protein at least 180g...
Avoid processed foods for the majority of eats
Avoid simple sugars for the majority of eats
Lots of fruit, veg, healthy fats, meat
Don't go crazy on carbs
Eat whole foods rather than shakes where possible
Don't eat foods you don't enjoy
Seems a pretty sensible approach.
Lots of protein at least 180g...
Avoid processed foods for the majority of eats
Avoid simple sugars for the majority of eats
Lots of fruit, veg, healthy fats, meat
Don't go crazy on carbs
Eat whole foods rather than shakes where possible
Don't eat foods you don't enjoy
That's pretty much my philosophy, Mon-Fri
although admittedly, I don't get enough veg
Started to type up my thoughts but again pretty much the same as above except for I always have a shake PWO as for me at least if I have food then instead or just later in the day I am much more sore.
This is when I'm not just being a greedy prick, when my philosophy becomes "Mmmmmm, I'm hungry, I'm going to eat as much as I fancy of the tastiest thing available." Which tends to be lots.
Surge >****ing chocolate milk. I say so, so that's that.
JonnyJames
12-04-2011, 09:37
I say so, so that's that.
Another day, another signature worthy quote.
Surge >****ing chocolate milk. I say so, so that's that.
Ok, BRO.
Ok, BRO.
Meh, I used to be a crossfitter so my study of n=1 is conclusive and undeniable proof
Meh, I used to be a crossfitter so my study of n=1 is conclusive and undeniable proof
n=1 studies are my favourite kind of logical fallacies.
Bro: L-Carnitine got me ripped.
Me: But the science says it does jack, were you dieting too?
Bro: Oh yeah, I was only eating 1500kcals per day, but the results were definately down to the Carnitine...
n=1 studies are my favourite kind of logical fallacies.
Bro: L-Carnitine got me ripped.
Me: But the science says it does jack, were you dieting too?
Bro: Oh yeah, I was only eating 1500kcals per day, but the results were definately down to the Carnitine...
distinct lack of "bro"'s and "brah"'s in that exchange.
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 15:03
Most days I have my first meal of the day @ 2-3pm, I'll be in the gym for 5ish and have the rest of my cals PWO until about 10pm. Then I don't eat till 2-3pm the next day. Cals are set on goals, but workout days tend to be higher carbs and cals.
The only day the above differs is Saturday (during rugby season) where I get more grub in pre game.
I was never a big traditional breakfast person anyway and I'm shit in the mornings so this free's me up for other things. The fast has supposed health benefits like insulin sensitivity etc too, and I find digestion is better eating like this too.
It's not for everyone, but I like having big meals PWO and if you're on a diet you feel like you're eating relatively lots of food on lower cals due to the restricted eating window.
Aled, you still doing this?
Aled, you still doing this?
I am mate.
For me it's more a lifestyle thing than something I'd embark on for a specific period of time, could work if you're looking to cut I suppose. Like I said, weekends tend to be a bit looser with sport / social committments, but I adhere to the principles most of the time:
Rest days: Lower cals, carbs. Do some cardio (could be walking, could be rugby conditioning)
Training Days: Higher cals & carbs. MASSIVE meal PWO.
Any queries, gimme a shout.
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 15:37
Cool.
Probs have about 10 pages of questions when I get in from work and can spend a bit more time thinking about it.
GoldenArrow
27-02-2012, 15:39
Cool.
Probs have about 10 pages of questions when I get in from work and can spend a bit more time thinking about it.
This is why I just ended up recommending 'just follow precision nutrition' to most people
JonnyJames
27-02-2012, 15:46
This is why I just ended up recommending 'just follow precision nutrition' to most people
~~~~~~~~
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 15:51
Which could be correlated to your revenue from nutritional plan sales... :D
So much of nutrition is down to personal preference that picking a style that you like is the most important thing in my experience.
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 15:53
Scrap that; you might be on to something...
Every time Aled posts about diet I have to explode my head and spend 3 ****ing hours on Google.
GoldenArrow
27-02-2012, 16:04
Scrap that; you might be on to something...
Every time Aled posts about diet I have to explode my head and spend 3 ****ing hours on Google.
See madcap's sig for the solution to that one....
- Eat vegetables
- Eat protein
- Try and eat organic
- Get in good fats
- Eat carbs after training
- Win.
GoldenArrow
27-02-2012, 16:06
....or do what I just did and buy 2 yorkies and a massive packet of prepared fruit, wolf it all down and then sit with massive pain in your stomach wondering just how hard your kettlebell workout has to be now to cancel that lot out....
Every time Aled posts about diet I have to explode my head and spend 3 ****ing hours on Google.
Apologies. There is a **** load of dogma out there in so far as diet is concerned though, one of my pet hates.
....or do what I just did and buy 2 yorkies and a massive packet of prepared fruit, wolf it all down and then sit with massive pain in your stomach wondering just how hard your kettlebell workout has to be now to cancel that lot out....
Approximately 10,000 KB snatches....
...per arm...
:euro:
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 16:30
Apologies. There is a **** load of dogma out there in so far as diet is concerned though, one of my pet hates.
Don't apologize dude, it wasn't a dig at you.
More an admission that I don't know anything.
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 16:31
See madcap's sig for the solution to that one....
- Eat vegetables
- Eat protein
- Try and eat organic
- Get in good fats
- Eat carbs after training
- Win.
Yeah I [try to] do that anyway.
See madcap's sig for the solution to that one....
- Eat vegetables
- Eat protein
- Try and eat organic
- Get in good fats
- Eat carbs after training
- Win.
That and....
You don't need to eat until you are stuffed
And you are pretty much golden
So much of nutrition is down to personal preference that picking a style that you like is the most important thing in my experience.
As usual, Dave is spot on.
Like Aled, I am now doing intermittent fasting. I fast for 16 hours, and 8 hours for eating. Seems to be working well so far, body fat looks to be down, but body weight is more or less the same.
I am mate.
For me it's more a lifestyle thing than something I'd embark on for a specific period of time, could work if you're looking to cut I suppose. Like I said, weekends tend to be a bit looser with sport / social committments, but I adhere to the principles most of the time:
Rest days: Lower cals, carbs. Do some cardio (could be walking, could be rugby conditioning)
Training Days: Higher cals & carbs. MASSIVE meal PWO.
Any queries, gimme a shout.
Aled, do you think it's possible to bulk on this type of diet? And if so, is it something you'd recommend?
See madcap's sig for the solution to that one....
- Eat vegetables
- Eat protein
- Try and eat organic
- Get in good fats
- Eat carbs after training
- Win.
Other than try and eat organic which is a big **** off con.
I'm getting stuck into a similar pattern to Aled though sometimes with a few nuts / some fruit to tide me over mid-morning. It means at least I'm sated for a couple of hours a day.
GoldenArrow
27-02-2012, 19:09
Other than try and eat organic which is a big **** off con.
That would depend if we were using the word to mean 'actually organic' or 'labelled as organic'
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 19:16
I am mate.
For me it's more a lifestyle thing than something I'd embark on for a specific period of time, could work if you're looking to cut I suppose. Like I said, weekends tend to be a bit looser with sport / social committments, but I adhere to the principles most of the time:
Rest days: Lower cals, carbs. Do some cardio (could be walking, could be rugby conditioning)
Training Days: Higher cals & carbs. MASSIVE meal PWO.
Any queries, gimme a shout.
Right.
1. do you load up on carbs (e.g. dextrose, or even something as simple as a gatorade) pre workout?
2. take me through a typical 2-3 hours PWO and then for the rest of the day. If you can, post a typical/ideal day's eats inc the timings.
3. have you read 'nutrient timing'? If so, what do you make of it?
4. do you do cardio in your fasted state?
5. personally I don't class walking as cardio (it's just living), so that being the case, do you do cardio in your morning/fasted state?
6. what time of day do you hit the fish oil? Does it even matter?
7. do you really eat all of your calories between 2 and 10pm?
8. what time do you surface in the morning?
9. I train 6 days a week, making this high/low carbs on training/non-training days almost obselete. According to old man Wolf, I'm on the road to cancer et al. What do you make of this? In my shoes, would you even bother to regulate crab intake on my one non-training day a week?
That's it for now. :D
Well what inorganic stuff do you eat...? Studies showed there was no nutritional improvement in organic food compared to standard stuff, in fact in some circumstances it was worse because of diseases and pests that would have been avoided if pesticides etc had been used.
GoldenArrow
27-02-2012, 19:20
Well what inorganic stuff do you eat...? Studies showed there was no nutritional improvement in organic food compared to standard stuff, in fact in some circumstances it was worse because of diseases and pests that would have been avoided if pesticides etc had been used.
I'd rather not take in toxic chemicals, GM crops, support Monsanto's mission to trademark life and bankrupt any farmers that disagree....of course, that's nearly impossible in today's situation...
There's also the issue that even if you decide to grow your own crops most of the soil we have is irradiated to potentially dangerous levels, so you're probably screwed either way.
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 19:24
Personally I don't like GM crops because they are typically (now) modified to tolerate growing in regions of the world that they don't naturally occur in, as opposed to just delivering a bigger yield. This upsets ecosystems and threatens wildlife, which really ****s me off.
JonnyJames
27-02-2012, 19:31
Personally I don't like GM crops because they are typically (now) modified to tolerate growing in regions of the world that they don't naturally occur in, as opposed to just delivering a bigger yield. This upsets ecosystems and threatens wildlife, which really ****s me off.
Ah God don't get me started. It's one of the things that enrages me.
Well what inorganic stuff do you eat...? Studies showed there was no nutritional improvement in organic food compared to standard stuff, in fact in some circumstances it was worse because of diseases and pests that would have been avoided if pesticides etc had been used.
I'm with Ian on that one though.
SomeOldDog
27-02-2012, 19:39
Ah God don't get me started. It's one of the things that enrages me.
Someone else on the same page for a change!
I'd rather not take in toxic chemicals, GM crops, support Monsanto's mission to trademark life and bankrupt any farmers that disagree....of course, that's nearly impossible in today's situation...
There's also the issue that even if you decide to grow your own crops most of the soil we have is irradiated to potentially dangerous levels, so you're probably screwed either way.
Well ethical concerns are different, not that everything that isn't organic is doing all the above... There really are no health benefits to organic. It's why advertising always infers the healthiness of organic products, none ever says directly that it is because it's been proven not to be.
1. do you load up on carbs (e.g. dextrose, or even something as simple as a gatorade) pre workout?
Nope. I break my fast around 2-3pm normally with a medium sized meal - about 50-75g Carbs, same protein, and some fat. Sometime I'll sip on a protein carb mixture during my workout.
2. take me through a typical 2-3 hours PWO and then for the rest of the day. If you can, post a typical/ideal day's eats inc the timings.
Break-fast 2-3pm as above. 5-6pm start workout. 7pm Big meal, tonight was a Protein smoothie of 1 serving protein, banana and some frozen raspberries blended up. Followed by 400g of Rice, chicken and veg. Will have some cottage cheese and fruit before bed probably
3. have you read 'nutrient timing'? If so, what do you make of it?
Not read it no. But IMO - hitting daily cals and macros consistently > Nutrient timing
4. do you do cardio in your fasted state?
Sometimes, will take a serving of BCAA prior if I do.
[5. personally I don't class walking as cardio (it's just living), so that being the case, do you do cardio in your morning/fasted state?
As above. Rugby training is done fed. I have a fasted walk most lunch times.
6. what time of day do you hit the fish oil? Does it even matter?
Whenever I remember. Yep, doesn't matter.
7. do you really eat all of your calories between 2 and 10pm?
95% of the time, yes. I dont sweat it if its +/- an hour or so though.
8. what time do you surface in the morning?
Normally about 7. Leave the house anytime between 8-9.
9. I train 6 days a week, making this high/low carbs on training/non-training days almost obselete. According to old man Wolf, I'm on the road to cancer et al. What do you make of this? In my shoes, would you even bother to regulate crab intake on my one non-training day a week?
In your shoes, no, I wouldn't follow this approach. I mean I weight train 2-3 times per week, and rugby train twice, so it fits quite well to cycle my carbs and cals. Saturday is my day off in so far as diet, pretty much eat what I want, normally start fasting again on the sunday.
There's also the issue that even if you decide to grow your own crops most of the soil we have is irradiated to potentially dangerous levels, so you're probably screwed either way.
Really? :017:
plateau2
28-02-2012, 08:26
Well ethical concerns are different, not that everything that isn't organic is doing all the above... There really are no health benefits to organic. It's why advertising always infers the healthiness of organic products, none ever says directly that it is because it's been proven not to be.
There is a lack of and/or conflicting proof for much of sports nutrition, ultimately a lot of this comes down to belief/Philosophy.
It's not just about potential damage to me/family, it's potential damage to the environment. I'm sure we can all think of stuff in the past that was "safe", but later shown not to be safe (DDT, thalidomide etc).
Perhaps since I think most studies (12 in total, seems to ring a bell?) have only been done since the 1950/60s - perhaps benefit is smaller than the studies currently available could detect. Long term modest health benefits are very difficult to detect with clinical trials.
As always most studies showing no benefit, can be picked at by those taking an opposing view.
Does it not seem reasonable to minimize human exposure to pesticides?
Aled, do you think it's possible to bulk on this type of diet? And if so, is it something you'd recommend?
Ahem
Ahem
Sorry dude, missed this.
Well the diet founder successfuly bulked on it, I can't see why you couldn't if you can fit the cals in during the window. I think Martin recommends more cals on rest days during bulking, and less cycling of carbs. TBH I've not read much on it as I never struggle to add weight, neither should you on test!
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 10:38
I don;t know how you do it Aled!
Tried it today (for the 'fun' of it).
Lasted until 2 mins ago when I caved in.
JonnyJames
28-02-2012, 10:40
He's Welsh. They don't feel things the way we do.
I've never had any problem with not eating, I did something similar to IF'ing for a bit and thought it was great. The only problem for me came when I was obliged to train in the morning, although I did train fasted a few times and noticed no difference from it.
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 10:54
Just foudn this from Aled's link.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dtaWqzV6d7M/TMC_lQFY1SI/AAAAAAAAA5E/hiRn0jPhJbI/s1600/Batman+and+Joker+Diet+Discussion.jpg
Thought it was awesome.
JonnyJames
28-02-2012, 10:55
Like it.
I don;t know how you do it Aled!
Tried it today (for the 'fun' of it).
Lasted until 2 mins ago when I caved in.
Rob, what you have to remember is that the hormone Ghrelin (hunger hormone) becomes entrained to any given meal frequency.
So if you've always eaten traditional breakfast and then suddenly you don't, you WILL feel hungry as your body will be releasing ghrelin along with a slight drop in blood glucose for good measure too. Ghrelin takes a couple of days to adjust to a new meal frequency - I found black coffee a must initially to stave off the hunger.
Once you get used to it though you become accustomed to what is actual true hunger, and what is just what your body is used to. For example, I'll always start to feel hungry at 2pm now, but sometimes I might not actually eat till 4pm if I have stuff on. Some days I'll feel hungry before 2pm and might eat earlier if it's convenient. I feel pretty clear headed and efficient when fasting too, some of my best workouts have been on zero fuel bar BCAA's..
From my perspective though, the real advantage to this plan is you're not worrying about when your next meal is, or if you've eaten every 2.96hrs, because it's simply irrelevant outside of getting on enough total food for your goal in, regardless of what time you eat it. I was sucked in by the whole 6 meals per day thing, which I found tiresome to be honest, and a bloody inconvenience most of the time. Plus being the glutton that I am, splitting meals up into six smaller feedings just resulted in me eating more than I actually needed. With this I just don't worry about food for most of the day, and then when I do eat, I get to eat big. Works for me, but I realise it's not for everyone.
One thing you can do if the health benefits of fasting interest you is to implement one 16-24hr fast per week. Some people can handle a full day, others not, so have a play and see what works for you, preferably on a rest day.
Remind me what the ****ing point of this fasting bullshit is?
Just foudn this from Aled's link.
Some awesome nuggets of info on that link, recommended reading for anyone even if you have no interest in following his plan.
Remind me what the ****ing point of this fasting bullshit is?
Some of the supposed benefits are:
- Better glucose sensitivity (make better use of carbs)
- Fat loss
- neuro protective (against things like alzheimers etc)
- More growth hormone
- Better CV health
- Mental alertness
Sure there's more on his site, but practically speaking (for me) it just means I miss breakfast and have a late lunch, and backload cals after workout.
Missing traditional breakfast means I have more time in the morning, getting to have a boatload of cals PWO feels like a nice reward, especailly if dieting, and probably helps somewhat with nutrient partioning.
Righto.
I thought nutrient partitioning was bollocks?
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 11:09
Tim,
I guess it could be summarized thus;
"So on a standard diet, the typical composition of weight loss is 75% fat / 25% muscle, while it appears to be 90% fat / 10% muscle on intermittent fasting based regimens."
His words not mine, although, he does lift them straight from a paper.
R
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 11:11
Summary:
http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/sure-fire-fat-loss.html
Righto.
I thought nutrient partitioning was bollocks?
Well in the main I agree, but cycling carbs and cals seems to make some sense, even if it only helps a little.
Tim,
I guess it could be summarized thus;
"So on a standard diet, the typical composition of weight loss is 75% fat / 25% muscle, while it appears to be 90% fat / 10% muscle on intermittent fasting based regimens."
His words not mine, although, he does lift them straight from a paper.
R
That's assuming you only want to lose fat on said diet. You can set this up for any type of goal you want mate, be it weight loss / gain or maintenance.
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 11:27
CRisis!
I'll have a read of some of the info over the next week or so.
Need to get my training programme down first!
In the meantime I am eating roughly equiv to Paleo
R
Hmmm, OK. Whilst I can accept the central tenets of paleo easily enough, I struggle with this IF lark.
Because you have a quick metabolism. It's good for greedy people with slower metabolisms as you get to be satisfied for at least a portion of the day, whereas spreading a small number of cals over a whole day means never being sated.
Aye, fair point I grant you.
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 11:53
Paleo bro
Martin Berkhan is full of shit. he is about 70 kilos max but likes to claims 200lbs. for that reason alone I wouldn't trust that guy when it comes to anything.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dtaWqzV6d7M/R3K1-joWv2I/AAAAAAAAAFE/8ziHbw4Bx2s/s1600/IFrecompb.bmp
leviathan
28-02-2012, 12:13
I don't think I could cope with IF either.
ATZ how many calories do you generally consume each day?
Rob, what you have to remember is that the hormone Ghrelin (hunger hormone) becomes entrained to any given meal frequency.
So if you've always eaten traditional breakfast and then suddenly you don't, you WILL feel hungry as your body will be releasing ghrelin along with a slight drop in blood glucose for good measure too. Ghrelin takes a couple of days to adjust to a new meal frequency - I found black coffee a must initially to stave off the hunger.
Once you get used to it though you become accustomed to what is actual true hunger, and what is just what your body is used to. For example, I'll always start to feel hungry at 2pm now, but sometimes I might not actually eat till 4pm if I have stuff on. Some days I'll feel hungry before 2pm and might eat earlier if it's convenient. I feel pretty clear headed and efficient when fasting too, some of my best workouts have been on zero fuel bar BCAA's..
From my perspective though, the real advantage to this plan is you're not worrying about when your next meal is, or if you've eaten every 2.96hrs, because it's simply irrelevant outside of getting on enough total food for your goal in, regardless of what time you eat it. I was sucked in by the whole 6 meals per day thing, which I found tiresome to be honest, and a bloody inconvenience most of the time. Plus being the glutton that I am, splitting meals up into six smaller feedings just resulted in me eating more than I actually needed. With this I just don't worry about food for most of the day, and then when I do eat, I get to eat big. Works for me, but I realise it's not for everyone.
One thing you can do if the health benefits of fasting interest you is to implement one 16-24hr fast per week. Some people can handle a full day, others not, so have a play and see what works for you, preferably on a rest day.
absolute gem of a truth there
Funnily enough i'm now finding the best results going back to breakfast, lunch and dinner + snacks round training with greater emphasis on quality and quantity of food. whodafunkit!
That's pretty much how I'm eating. Just with an extra shake and piece of fruit in the late morning on weekdays, because it's easy and helps keep my protein intake reasonable.
Funnily enough i'm now finding the best results going back to breakfast, lunch and dinner + snacks round training with greater emphasis on quality and quantity of food. whodafunkit!
same here, 3 x 1k calories meals and 2 x 250 snacks ( 300g cottage cheese, 3 eggs, 50g casein, etc)
easy peasy and no starving involved.
JonnyJames
28-02-2012, 12:33
same here, 3 x 1k calories meals and 2 x 250 snacks ( 300g cottage cheese, 3 eggs, 50g casein, etc)
easy peasy and no starving involved.
Ditto. Well, half-ditto. Biggest meal in the evening when I actually have time to enjoy my food, breakfast next biggest and then lunch 3rd. Have long since stopped obsessing over the 'need' to have 6 500kcal meals, thank goodness.
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 12:34
cba
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 12:40
alright then:
unless he's about 5'6'', my view is, you're ****ing wrong
haha he is lean yes and that will tend to give a more fuller look, but come on dawg look at his arms, shoulders, and lats, he is not 14 stone. end of story.
there are pics of him in clothes ou there, and he just about look like he trains. cant be bothered to dig them up.
SomeOldDog
28-02-2012, 12:53
hehe, now you're cba-ing on me
yeah i get what you mean, though, he's not 90kg
GoldenArrow
28-02-2012, 12:56
He may well be 5' 6", he's a small guy.
Not 200lbs unless he's 7 foot tall
same here, 3 x 1k calories meals and 2 x 250 snacks ( 300g cottage cheese, 3 eggs, 50g casein, etc)
easy peasy and no starving involved.
same over here.
same here, 3 x 1k calories meals and 2 x 250 snacks ( 300g cottage cheese, 3 eggs, 50g casein, etc)
easy peasy and no starving involved.
Well that's because you're having 3,500cals a day isn't it. If you're on say 2,000, it gets harder.
Well that's because you're having 3,500cals a day isn't it. If you're on say 2,000, it gets harder.
well eating 1.5k fewer calories gets harder, no matter what way you cut it. In that situation, I did just go for 3 x 700calories meals with black coffee in between.
plateau2
28-02-2012, 13:19
Well that's because you're having 3,500cals a day isn't it. If you're on say 2,000, it gets harder.
1. Take Dugs
2. Go back to step 1 and repeat
This dieting is too hard for you, plus this way less chance of you getting more twins, so win and win!
well eating 1.5k fewer calories gets harder, no matter what way you cut it. In that situation, I did just go for 3 x 700calories meals with black coffee in between.
But being greedy, I would be constantly hungry if I only ate meals of ~700 cals. At least with one meal of 1,000-1,200 I am happy for a few hours a day. Plus, as Aled mentioned, once you get over the first week or so, I'm used to not eating breakfast now and tend to only get hungry late morning, when a bit of fruit or some nuts can tide me over.
1. Take Dugs
2. Go back to step 1 and repeat
This dieting is too hard for you, plus this way less chance of you getting more twins, so win and win!
The perfect solution!
Well that's because you're having 3,500cals a day isn't it. If you're on say 2,000, it gets harder.
barely... just cut stuff out. The fact that you're looking to reduce cals would mean you have to reduce your intake anyway. It's a lot easier than people want you to believe, just takes some willpower, greedy or not, either you want it or you don't
JonnyJames
28-02-2012, 14:01
It's a lot easier than people want you to believe, just takes some willpower, greedy or not, either you want it or you don't
:038:
barely... just cut stuff out. The fact that you're looking to reduce cals would mean you have to reduce your intake anyway. It's a lot easier than people want you to believe, just takes some willpower, greedy or not, either you want it or you don't
WHOAH.......hang on there, Ian is already down to only 600g of mince in a sitting. :flamethrowingsmiley
JonnyJames
28-02-2012, 14:11
WHOAH.......hang on there, Ian is already down to only 600g of mince in a sitting. :flamethrowingsmiley
~~~~~~~~~~~
barely... just cut stuff out. The fact that you're looking to reduce cals would mean you have to reduce your intake anyway. It's a lot easier than people want you to believe, just takes some willpower, greedy or not, either you want it or you don't
I don't understand your point here - I do "want it" and I am using willpower am I not by restricting to 2,000 cals per day 5 days per week, but I am choosing to cluster those calories into fewer meals. You seem to be suggesting that making it more mentally difficult is part of the point of it...?
WHOAH.......hang on there, Ian is already down to only 600g of mince in a sitting. :flamethrowingsmiley
Barely touched the sides :011:
Lol Sunday is my one big eating day as it is my only really big training session of the week. Daily calorie average is still well below my official maintenance though.
I don't understand your point here - I do "want it" and I am using willpower am I not by restricting to 2,000 cals per day 5 days per week, but I am choosing to cluster those calories into fewer meals. You seem to be suggesting that making it more mentally difficult is part of the point of it...?
why would you have to restrict to 2000 cals anyway? surely your maintenance cals are way more than that? I wasn't speaking specifically about you in my post above.
But yes, making a lifestyle change is supposed to be mentally and physically difficult.
"do what you've always done, get what you've always got" and all that.
Few possible misconceptions need clarifying here:
1. Picture of Martin posted by Icepick is him when he originally cut down to 5% or so, he admits he was only 170lbs or thereabouts when this was taken. He stated he's added 30lbs or so since and isn't as lean, but definitely still sub 10%. Either way, I still don't think this is shoddy for someone who is hugely anti drugs, and look at the results he gets with his clients...
2. To clarify, when I'm actually fasting I'm not hungry or "staving" for that matter. You feel I suppose "empty" but certinaly not hungry, I feel pretty alert and full of energy. It's also taught me to recognise true hunger and not just boredom or social pressure to eat. At least 50% of it I'm asleep anyway.
3. This sytem of IF aka "leangains" was developed by Marting for those wishing to look good all year round, it involves calorie and carb cycling for a given goal - be that bulking, cutting, or maintenance. It's not a performance programme. I follow it "loosely" during rugby season, but when following it properly off season it certainly gets me in shape faster than other things I've tried. The real benefit for me is adhereance, I don't feel hungry doing it when dieting.
4. Fasting IS Paleo. When would we have had guaranteed food sources or fixed meal times in the past? Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner is a by-product of industralised society. If you look on the continent not many cultures place that much emphsis on what we would define traditional breakfast.
1. Picture of Martin posted by Icepick is him when he originally cut down to 5% or so, he admits he was only 170lbs or thereabouts when this was taken. He stated he's added 30lbs or so since and isn't as lean, but definitely still sub 10%. Either way, I still don't think this is shoddy for someone who is hugely anti drugs.
http://www.leangains.com/p/my-transformation.html
^ taken from the bottom of that page where he is claiming '194-196 lbs @ 5.5% bf. ''
But yes, making a lifestyle change is supposed to be mentally and physically difficult.
:017: Why? That's like saying getting stronger is meant to be difficult so taking roids is stupid as it makes it easier. I don't think things are supposed to be difficult, they just sometimes are, but if you can make something easier with the same results and no apparent downsides, why on Earth would you not?
why would you have to restrict to 2000 cals anyway? surely your maintenance cals are way more than that? I wasn't speaking specifically about you in my post above.
Maintenance is allegedly 2,800. I gain weight on 3,000 per day.
:017: Why? That's like saying getting stronger is meant to be difficult so taking roids is stupid as it makes it easier. I don't think things are supposed to be difficult, they just sometimes are, but if you can make something easier with the same results and no apparent downsides, why on Earth would you not?
Maintenance is allegedly 2,800. I gain weight on 3,000 per day.
The roid argument is probably why deep down, people say they're against it. It depends on your perception of stronger how easier taking roids makes getting stronger. By a physical weight, yes... but for me, my gym sessions are as hard/harder than normal because I still have to work for it. Noone on gear on this site trains with their eyes closed and with ease. The journals here are testament to this.
Also, who said IF is easier? Seems a damn sight harder to me, fasting until 3 just so you can have bigger meals and stay below maintenance cals.
Have you actually tried IF yet?
plateau2
28-02-2012, 16:00
4. Fasting IS Paleo. When would we have had guaranteed food sources or fixed meal times in the past? Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner is a by-product of industralised society. If you look on the continent not many cultures place that much emphsis on what we would define traditional breakfast.
Think this too is a misconception, pretty sure if a paleo type found nuts/fruits/carcass they would take the opportunity to eat it - rather than having to wait 14 hours before eating again.
Think this too is a misconception, pretty sure if a paleo type found nuts/fruits/carcass they would take the opportunity to eat it - rather than having to wait 14 hours before eating again.
yup exactly. if pizza was available to paleo man. he would have eaten it.
The roid argument is probably why deep down, people say they're against it. It depends on your perception of stronger how easier taking roids makes getting stronger. By a physical weight, yes... but for me, my gym sessions are as hard/harder than normal because I still have to work for it. Noone on gear on this site trains with their eyes closed and with ease. The journals here are testament to this.
Also, who said IF is easier? Seems a damn sight harder to me, fasting until 3 just so you can have bigger meals and stay below maintenance cals.
Have you actually tried IF yet?
Erm, I said IF is easier, it's precisely my point! Yes, I've been doing it for the past 6 ish weeks. Small meals are unsatisfying, barely any better than not eating at all for me in terms of killing hunger and inproving mood, but the big dinner I can allow on IF satisfies my hunger and improves my mood and I stay within daily calorie limits. Sorted.
Cba to scroll up, I'm on my phone but didn't you say you snack on fruit etc or a protein shake early morning? If IF is easier for you fair play to ya. How do u fuel your lunchtime sessions?
Edit: snack comment was Narc.
I sometimes have a Graze punnet late morning to tide me over, but that's normally ~100 cals. Lunchtime session is fuelled with coffee and a diet pop can with some CEE in. Post-WO is whey in water, apple / banana and a bit of meat, then a proper dinner at about 8-8.30. That's about it.
I sometimes have a Graze punnet late morning to tide me over, but that's normally ~100 cals. Lunchtime session is fuelled with coffee and a diet pop can with some CEE in. Post-WO is whey in water, apple / banana and a bit of meat, then a proper dinner at about 8-8.30. That's about it.
You sound ****ing miserable about it mate. Ruining your life in the pursuit of being lean is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. Attaining the goal becomes so onerous that it is impossible to maintain it when you get there. I appreciate that you know your body better than I do, but I would suggest adopting an alternative approach.
Also, who said IF is easier? Seems a damn sight harder to me, fasting until 3 just so you can have bigger meals and stay below maintenance cals.
Have you actually tried IF yet?
Have you?
Not eating for a few hours, wow, such a hardship. Seriously, I was once one of those people who thought they couldn't deal without food for a few hours, turns out I could - and easily at that.
The big meals thing if you like feeling full is a real big plus, honestly.
In truth though, do what works for YOU. There is no wrong or right way, everything is just a variation on a theme.
Think this too is a misconception, pretty sure if a paleo type found nuts/fruits/carcass they would take the opportunity to eat it - rather than having to wait 14 hours before eating again.
Are you serious? Food would have been intermittently available depending on the season, how good a hunter you were, location etc etc. I'm not saying that fasting for a fixed period each day is paleo, but going for a given period of time without food is certainly in line with how we would have evolved. Else why else does nature favour the glutton? Those people who put fat on easier would have had more chance of surviving times of hardship.
3 meals per day instead of 6 is a lot easier mentally and socially for me, with a 4th for pwo on training days.
I will say that when I tried IF last year, getting over the hunger till 1-2pm ish wasn't a problem, and I did feel alert and quite energetic. Only problem was hitting my macro targets if I has a busy afternoon or evening and had no time to 'feast', hence why I went back to a regular eating pattern.
You sound ****ing miserable about it mate. Ruining your life in the pursuit of being lean is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. Attaining the goal becomes so onerous that it is impossible to maintain it when you get there. I appreciate that you know your body better than I do, but I would suggest adopting an alternative approach.
Nope, not miserable about it, that's my point about this regime - I get to feel full (or full ish at least) each day, which is good news for a greedy bastard.
Have you?
Not eating for a few hours, wow, such a hardship. Seriously, I was once one of those people who thought they couldn't deal without food for a few hours, turns out I could - and easily at that.
The big meals thing if you like feeling full is a real big plus, honestly.
In truth though, do what works for YOU. There is no wrong or right way, everything is just a variation on a theme.
I wake up at 7... the **** would I want to be awake without food for 7-8 hours for?
I'm happy with my current diet. For me, eating less, spread out over your meals is more manageable than not eating for hours and then stuffing a load in. But power to you for doing it and enjoying it.
I wake up at 7... the **** would I want to be awake without food for 7-8 hours for?
I'm happy with my current diet. For me, eating less, spread out over your meals is more manageable than not eating for hours and then stuffing a load in. But power to you for doing it and enjoying it.
And that's the main thing. :038:
Rob, if you want a good simplified read on this (even just for interest), this is pretty comprehensive:
http://doubleyourgains.com/musclebuildingmastermind/The_Leangains_Approach_Final.pdf
This thread is funny!! You will never weigh above 200lbs with less than 10% bf eating this way. Well unless you weighed that before you started.
There is no way I could get in and enjoy 4500cals of quality food in 8-9hrs.
I'd say it's only an 'ok-ish' plan for endomorphs, personally.
SomeOldDog
29-02-2012, 06:04
Rob, if you want a good simplified read on this (even just for interest), this is pretty comprehensive:
http://doubleyourgains.com/musclebuildingmastermind/The_Leangains_Approach_Final.pdf
Thanks Aled, I'll have a read.
JonnyJames
29-02-2012, 06:56
I agree whole-heartedly with all 3 points.
You will never weigh above 200lbs with less than 10% bf eating this way. Well unless you weighed that before you started.
A BB-er whose blog I stumbled across once, Dr Robert Thoburn, wrote something like 'When the average person hears 'Paleo' they think 'Caveman.' And when they think 'Caveman' they picture a bear-like Neanderthal - but we aren't descended from Neanderthals. Rather, our ancestors were thin, graceful and athletic.' My ectomorphism aside, I'd much, much rather be built like a Neanderthal, or a burly Viking or what have you than a paleolithic hunter.
There is no way I could get in and enjoy 4500cals of quality food in 8-9hrs.
I struggle to eat as much as I do now, let alone Craig-like quantities, and that's spread over about 14 hours, and I freely admit to pussying out and resorting to easy-to-eat crap - ice cream etc - to bulk out my evening meal. Simply couldn't handle it otherwise; I just don't have the appetite. Force-feeding myself has led to more than one episode of vomiting.
I'd say it's only an 'ok-ish' plan for endomorphs, personally.
Yes. I dread to think how much weight Paul, Tim or I (for example) would lose eating like that.
They key point here is that Martin is a little bitch, essentially. He was also extremely lean before hand.
plateau2
29-02-2012, 08:12
Are you serious? Food would have been intermittently available depending on the season, how good a hunter you were, location etc etc. I'm not saying that fasting for a fixed period each day is paleo, but going for a given period of time without food is certainly in line with how we would have evolved. Else why else does nature favour the glutton? Those people who put fat on easier would have had more chance of surviving times of hardship.
Evidence rather than conjucture for any of the above please?
Aled is right, the 'paleo' pattern of eating would not have been regular. At the same time, it would not have had a regular fast built in - eat when there is food, don't eat when you are looking for food. Closer to IF'ing than anything else though.
plateau2
29-02-2012, 08:24
Aled is right, the 'paleo' pattern of eating would not have been regular.
Pretty sure no-one said they ate every 2.5 hours, feel free to quote back.
When is a gap between meals a fast as opposed to a break?
Again any evidence rather than conjucture as to paelo types?
LWStrong
29-02-2012, 08:37
Incredible tags.
I applaud 'Welsh Ramadan', 'eating dinosaurs' and 'fish and a rice cake'.
SomeOldDog
29-02-2012, 08:53
The first tag is mine :)
SomeOldDog
29-02-2012, 08:56
I particularly like "waste of a cycle" and "deal or no meal"
Genius
plateau2
29-02-2012, 09:00
The first tag is mine :)
Tis good!
I still contend its not intermittant if you do it every day.
plateau2
29-02-2012, 09:03
I still contend its not intermittant if you do it every day.
That's still funny... Should it be?
When is a gap between meals a fast as opposed to a break?
If I recall correctly, the body's metabolism doesn't slow down until around 60 hours, or more, of no food. So, in that respect I'd say this is a "food break" rather than a "fast", but these are just labels. (And obviously, metabolic slowdown is undesirable, plus a long fast like 60 hours wouldn't allow for training and full recovery).
My opinion is: If you're happy with the way you eat, why change it? If you're unhappy then there are various options that you can easily trial.
I particularly like "waste of a cycle" and "deal or no meal"
Genius
These tags are hilarious! I particularly like 'Aled Flintstone'. Own up you genius taggers!
I'm gonna get on a Fatsam cycle (TM), eating only one meal a day, and disprove the 200lb @ 10% theory! Boom!
plateau2
29-02-2012, 12:09
I'm gonna get on a Fatsam cycle (TM), eating only one meal a day, and disprove the 200lb @ 10% theory! Boom!
Do it!
I'm gonna get on a Fatsam cycle (TM), eating only one meal a day, and disprove the 200lb @ 10% theory! Boom!
I still think you'd struggle tbh. Gear isn't magic or atleast not in my experience.
I still think you'd struggle tbh. Gear isn't magic or atleast not in my experience.
Clearly I was being facetious mate. But I can add weight at 3500cal, and getting that in over 8hrs is very easy for me.
LWStrong
29-02-2012, 19:21
The tags just keep getting better... I was going to try and add some but my brain just ends up doing a fart. I come out with things like 'Aled iz a gayboi'.... That's just not good enough for the calibre we have here.
Anyway, slightly more on topic.
South Beach diet.
Discuss.
You're gonna make me cry if you carry on...
Paul, why in god's name do you want to know about the south beach diet?
LWStrong
29-02-2012, 19:55
My mum and dad are looking at giving it a go.
Seems pretty sensible (from the 2 pages or so of the book I read.... fairly high protein, fairly high fat, low carb etc), common sense things like not eating batterd mars bars etc...
I appreciate that it probably isn't the 'best' diet around however it looks like a nice gentle easy step.
I am not interested whatsoever, I'm on the GFH diet. It's not working...
http://www.griptraining.co.uk/images/ANOREXIC.png
My mum and dad are looking at giving it a go.
Seems pretty sensible (from the 2 pages or so of the book I read.... fairly high protein, fairly high fat, low carb etc), common sense things like not eating batterd mars bars etc...
I appreciate that it probably isn't the 'best' diet around however it looks like a nice gentle easy step.
I am not interested whatsoever, I'm on the GFH diet. It's not working...
Oh yeah, for someone coming from a standard western diet then the south beach diet is a big step in the right direction: more proteins, more fat, less refined carbs. I thought for a minute you were considering it!!
GoldenArrow
29-02-2012, 20:11
South Beach, bringing the heat, uh....
GoldenArrow
29-02-2012, 20:15
can y'all feel that? can y'all feel that?
http://www.griptraining.co.uk/images/ANOREXIC.png
Hero.
SomeOldDog
29-02-2012, 21:14
Jesus ****ing Christ those tags are good
JonnyJames
29-02-2012, 22:42
'Starving Private Aled' is very special.
plateau2
01-03-2012, 08:17
Jesus ****ing Christ those tags are good
Probably on a par with any of Sammy's threads?
JonnyJames
01-03-2012, 08:29
Probably on a par with any of Sammy's threads?
Given that I (and probably many others) keep loading this thread just to read them I'd say 'yes.'
SomeOldDog
01-03-2012, 08:43
Agree. The tags in this thread are legend.
Some of the highlights:
around the world in 80cals
can't eat wont shit
fast-est man alive
honey i shrunk my muscles
paleotard
somalia work experience
will only bite after 3pm
I mean, that's in addition to the ones Craig, Johnny and I mentioned above.
The tags are the best thing about this forum!
I shouldn't laugh, as most of them no doubt are partly directed at me, but they are tooooooo funny.
JonnyJames
01-03-2012, 08:55
I shouldn't laugh, as most of them no doubt are partly directed at me, but they are tooooooo funny.
Pah. If that were a reason not to laugh I'd never even crack a smile!
But I can add weight at 3500cal, and getting that in over 8hrs is very easy for me.
Without eating crap?
The key thing to be taken from all diets is the importance of nutrition around training, I doesnt really seem to matter what else you do.
Without eating crap?
Easily mate. I've never had a problem eating lots.
The key thing to be taken from all diets is the importance of nutrition around training, I doesnt really seem to matter what else you do.
Personally, I think this is massively overblown too.
Nearly all the research comparing around workout nutrition to none does so after working out fasted, or without considering other variables like overall diet. Supp companies love to use these cherry picked studies.
There is some interesting research showing eating more carbs at night helps with fatloss though, contrary to the old broscience of no carbs after 6pm etc. Apparently has something to do with circadian (sp?) rhythyms of the body or somefing. :017:
Also, the tags are classic passive aggressive, a lot have Tim written all over them ;)
plateau2
01-03-2012, 09:35
There is some interesting research showing eating more carbs at night helps with fatloss though, contrary to the old broscience of no carbs after 6pm etc. Apparently has something to do with circadian (sp?) rhythyms of the body or somefing. :017:
And great for seratonin levels, so actually when dieting hard and struggling to sleep don't miss them out before bed!
And great for seratonin levels, so actually when dieting hard and struggling to sleep don't miss them out before bed!
Give the way I get most of my cals and carbs, never have a problem sleeping!
plateau2
01-03-2012, 09:53
Give the way I get most of my cals and carbs, never have a problem sleeping!
I bet!
Keifer's carb back loading book has some reseach about it increasing GH too I have heard 2nd hand.
There is some interesting research showing eating more carbs at night helps with fatloss though, contrary to the old broscience of no carbs after 6pm etc. Apparently has something to do with circadian (sp?) rhythyms of the body or somefing. :017:
Is late night eating better for fatloss? (http://www.leangains.com/2011/06/is-late-night-eating-better-for-fat.html)
2011 Apr 7. Greater weight loss and hormonal changes after 6 months diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner.
Sofer S, Eliraz A, Kaplan S, Voet H, Fink G, Kima T, Madar Z.
Abstract
This study was designed to investigate the effect of a low-calorie diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner on anthropometric, hunger/satiety, biochemical, and inflammatory parameters. Hormonal secretions were also evaluated. Seventy-eight police officers (BMI >30) were randomly assigned to experimental (carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner) or control weight loss diets for 6 months. On day 0, 7, 90, and 180 blood samples and hunger scores were collected every 4 h from 0800 to 2000 hours. Anthropometric measurements were collected throughout the study. Greater weight loss, abdominal circumference, and body fat mass reductions were observed in the experimental diet in comparison to controls. Hunger scores were lower and greater improvements in fasting glucose, average daily insulin concentrations, and homeostasis model assessment for insulin resistance (HOMA(IR)), T-cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α), and interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were observed in comparison to controls. The experimental diet modified daily leptin and adiponectin concentrations compared to those observed at baseline and to a control diet. A simple dietary manipulation of carbohydrate distribution appears to have additional benefits when compared to a conventional weight loss diet in individuals suffering from obesity. It might also be beneficial for individuals suffering from insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome. Further research is required to confirm and clarify the mechanisms by which this relatively simple diet approach enhances satiety, leads to better anthropometric outcomes, and achieves improved metabolic response, compared to a more conventional dietary approach
Personally, I think this is massively overblown too.
Nearly all the research comparing around workout nutrition to none does so after working out fasted, or without considering other variables like overall diet. Supp companies love to use these cherry picked studies.
There is some interesting research showing eating more carbs at night helps with fatloss though, contrary to the old broscience of no carbs after 6pm etc. Apparently has something to do with circadian (sp?) rhythyms of the body or somefing. :017:
So you don't get the majority of your carbs in a 6 ish hour window around exercise?
SomeOldDog
01-03-2012, 10:11
Seventy-eight police officers (BMI >30) should be fired and new, none obese police officers hired to actually ****ing catch the dirty little perps
Sorted that quote for you, Aled.
So you don't get the majority of your carbs in a 6 ish hour window around exercise?
Yes, but I don't think it makes a huge difference.
The most importnat thing is hitting daily calorie and macro targets consistently. Your around workout nutrition could be the most advanced thing known to man, but if the rest of your diet is crap or lacking, your results will still be mediocre.
Sorted that quote for you, Aled.
Doughnuts are just too appealing Rob.
Yes, but I don't think it makes a huge difference.
The most importnat thing is hitting daily calorie and macro targets consistently. Your around workout nutrition could be the most advanced thing known to man, but if the rest of your diet is crap or lacking, your results will still be mediocre.
Naturally you can't eat crap the majority of the time. My personal experience has always been that eating as much as possible around training has lead to superior results, however.
plateau2
01-03-2012, 11:09
Naturally you can't eat crap the majority of the time. My personal experience has always been that eating as much as possible around training has lead to superior results, however.
Agreed, I have no studies to back this up but seems to be accurate for me.
If dieting eating majority of carbs around training gave me the energy to have more productive sessions, even if the rest of the day was a struggle.
JonnyJames
01-03-2012, 11:17
My personal experience has always been that eating as much as possible around training has lead to superior results, however.
Agreed.
just wanted to revisit the tags...
LWStrong
18-03-2012, 21:34
CBiaVHTPduQ
and... this has ****ing nothing to do with this thread but is far too awesome to not post;
orQm6wyXK8E
LWStrong
18-03-2012, 21:49
I love Mark Bell
He is ****ing awesome. I think it's how Timmy wishes he was.
JonnyJames
18-03-2012, 22:00
I love Mark Bell
I knew nothing about the guy before watching those but now I think I love him too.
LWStrong
18-03-2012, 22:08
I knew nothing about the guy before watching those but now I think I love him too.
Oh ****, you really have been missing out! Check out his stuff mate.
"**** your CNS, your CNS ain't tired, and neither are you"
This shall become my new mantra.
PikeKing
18-03-2012, 22:52
Mark Bell is awesome
did you know the floor press was invented by Dr Floor in Singapore?
I've never been sold on eating apples up until now.
I can only assume by his glowing vitality it's to be consumed post cod, chips and 4 cans of Special Brew.
I've never been sold on eating apples up until now.
I can only assume by his glowing vitality it's to be consumed post cod, chips and 4 cans of Special Brew.
Post anadrol
GoldenArrow
19-03-2012, 12:59
Ironic that someone that named his gym after the scientific training manual of the century can be* such a meathead.
Also, being hugely overweight and telling people not to be fat FTW....
*or lets say 'seem to be', since it's probably an act for the camera.
JonnyJames
19-03-2012, 13:16
Also, being hugely overweight and telling people not to be fat FTW....
I presumed this was also something of a pose and as such it entertained me hugely. If not, it's still entertaining, just in a different way.
Mark Bell is Paleo, whatever next!
JonnyJames
19-03-2012, 13:34
Mark Bell is Paleo, whatever next!
...other than the rice and the whey protein.
Rice is fine, depending on which paleo authority you subscribe to, Mark Sissons sells whey. The Paleo community is nothing short of contrived.
Whey is considered ok by some due to the lack of lactose in some types of it.
Whey is considered ok by some due to the lack of lactose in some types of it.
But dude, it's Dairy. And we all know dairy causes aids!
But dude, it's Dairy. And we all know dairy causes aids!
Gluten will have killed everyone long before the aids gets them.
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