Getting to it. Pikeside.

[Robert]

This is based on what I think I need to do to improve the Squat Bench Deadlift situation: I am fairly neurally inefficient as I have a lot of mass, and not much in the way of lifts... so.... aside from knocking drinking on the head for a while (50+ units a week is getting expensive and is hindering me a tad me thinks) and eating even more I will be doing this....

Week 1-2 (week1= new 3RM, week 2 break it).

ME Lower
Squat - 3RM at least 8 sets.
GM - 5RM at least 5 sets.
1/4 Squat - 2x5ish and heavy.
Reverse Woodchops - 3x10.

DE Upper
(55%) Bench - 5x3.
Board Press - 3x3.
CGBench - 5x5.
Cuff Work and Grip.

DE Lower
(55%) Deadlift - 5x2.
Rack pulls - 9x1.
SLDL OR Row - 5x5.
Hanging Legs Raise OR Calves - 3x10.

ME Upper
Bench - 3RM, at leats 8 sets.
CGBench - 5RM, at least 5 sets.
Chin - 4x5ish.

OK, so its a bit different. 2 ME exercises on ME day with no assitance. That means its heavy, and its hard work. You might ask; "where the hell is Db Benching?" Well, i have included DB Benching for a while now in all my benching days and have seen no much in the way of benifit TBH. I just don't need it. What I need to do is bust my ass benching lots under a heavy BB, this routine should cater for that. At the advice of GL+Phonk man I am going for board press to get rid of my weakness just off the chest. Thanks to Pikematser for some help with this too.

[Robert]

Not finished week 3-4 yet, so will post that later.

[Narc]

Looks good, are you actualy going to update your journal with this shit then? Interested to see how it goes.

[GoldenArrow]

Different....but ok..

What are your weak points?

[Robert]

Weakness's:
Bench - Everywhere. I am so gay at benching its not even funny. 100kg bench for a 90kg wolverine is crapola. SOG told me to mini max a while back, I did it and found that my weakness specifically is about 4-8" off chest.
My thoughts: Lots 'o benching needed. Assistance that focuses on developing strength at the 0-3 board range.

Squat - Definitly out of the hole-1/4 the way up. Lockout is mega strong as you would expect, probally down to the fact I do very heavy 1/4 squats a lot.
My thoughts: Lots of squatting, maybe some box squats? Zerchers are supposed to be good for out of the hole strength, so that guy said anyhoo. But, given my current progress on the squat, I will keep doing what I am doing.

Deadlift - If I can get it above my knee, I can lock it out, so lots of pulls from the floor and pulls from pins below knee me thinks, but I do this anyway.
My thoughts: Er... keep dong what I am doing. It seems to be working as my deadlift is miles ahead of everything else.
From the other WSB thread.

[GoldenArrow]

I'd go higher rep lower set on 2nd exercise, but I wouldn't try to max on it either..
Why 1/4 squats when you don't need lockout strength....
Similarly I hope the ROM on rack pulls is big enough.
Why no box squats.
Not enough ab work (maybe)
Not enough rowing.
Deadlift off plates for starting strength.

Would be my thoughts off the top of my head.

[Robert]

I'd go higher rep lower set on 2nd exercise, but I wouldn't try to max on it either..
Why 1/4 squats when you don't need lockout strength....
Similarly I hope the ROM on rack pulls is big enough.
Why no box squats.
Not enough ab work (maybe)
Not enough rowing.
Deadlift off plates for starting strength.

Would be my thoughts off the top of my head.
Like are you psychic or sommat?

Week 3-4 so far:

ME Lower
Box Squat - 3RM on 10" box, at least 8 sets.
ATG Paused Squat (2sec pause) - 5RM, at least 5 sets.
1/4 Squat - 2x5ish.
Russian Twist - 3x10.

DE Upper
(55%) Bench - 5x3.
Botton Position Bench - 3x3.
CGBench - 5x5.
Cuff work and Grip.

DE Lower
(65%) Deadlift - 5x1
Rack pulls BTK - 9x1
Deadlift off 1" block.

Also, rack pulls are from BTK, as in, from my weakest point. Not sure I need more rowing, my back day and the level of effort goign into benching is ****ing my traps up big time!

Also, core work is 2xweek for 3x10, thats plenty. 1/4 Squats are working wonders and are teaching me to lean back with heavy weight, stopping me from doing my old trick - squat down, power out of hole, get stuck towards lockout, gm the rest of the way up. They get me used to supra loads too.. its less of a shock when I 1RM now.

[GoldenArrow]

I don't care about your traps, you need to work your lats!

Still no dynamic box squatting. I will have this in ALWAYS unless I get really really good at it, this is one of the foundations of WSB for a reason....it makes a difference straight away. Don't do heavy standard deadlifting on a DE day IMO, or heavy benching on a DE bench day. I think you're trying to get too much in, remember the key is working hard not how many weaknesses you can try and fix at once, concentrate on one and remember you have to change every two weeks on your plan, you'll soon run out of exercises!

[GoldenArrow]

Or to put it more simply.. Westside Basics
By: Dave Tate

A good rule to train by is no more than four exercises per workout. So...
Max Effort SQ and DL
1 max effort exercise
1 exercise for your weak points
Reverse Hypers
Abs
[you will always do reverse hypers and abs, so you only need to figure out the first two exercises]

Speed Squat and Deadlift Day
Box squat
1 exercise for your weak area
Reverse hypers
Abs
[you will always do reverse hypers and abs, so you only need to figure out the first two exercises]

Max Effort Bench
1 max effort exercise
1 or 2 tricep exercise [must always do some kind of extension]
1 delt exercise [ presses sometimes, but mostly rear delts (this is to keep internal/external rotation balance)]
you can also do reverse hypers light and abs

Speed bench
bench press
1 tricep exercise [some kind of extension]
very little delt work [ such as 2 sets side raises]
reverse hypers and abs (light)

Change your max effort every 2 or 3 weeks any more is over kill. Also keep them in balance.
For example - don't do all arching exercises in a row. Do one cycle of an arching movement then one cycle of a bending movement.

[Robert]

I don't care about your traps, you need to work your lats!

Still no dynamic box squatting. I will have this in ALWAYS unless I get really really good at it, this is one of the foundations of WSB for a reason....it makes a difference straight away. Don't do heavy standard deadlifting on a DE day IMO, or heavy benching on a DE bench day. I think you're trying to get too much in, remember the key is working hard not how many weaknesses you can try and fix at once, concentrate on one and remember you have to change every two weeks on your plan, you'll soon run out of exercises!
Traps, lats, forarms, you name it.

DE box squatting may well be a foundation, but this routine is for ME, not the guys at WS. I want to use ME BS before I go DEing my way about. i am not doing anything DE style until I am comfortable foing it ME. I am not doing any heavy DLing on DE day, or any heavy benching on DE day.

[Robert]

Max Effort Bench
1 max effort exercise
1 or 2 tricep exercise [must always do some kind of extension]
1 delt exercise [ presses sometimes, but mostly rear delts (this is to keep internal/external rotation balance)]
you can also do reverse hypers light and abs

Speed bench
bench press
1 tricep exercise [some kind of extension]
very little delt work [ such as 2 sets side raises]
reverse hypers and abs (light)
Thats crap. There is no way I am following that. I don't care if DT or God himself wrote that. Its rubbish.

[GoldenArrow]

DE box squatting may well be a foundation, but this routine is for ME, not the guys at WS. I want to use ME BS before I go DEing my way about. i am not doing anything DE style until I am comfortable foing it ME.
ME is more likely to cause damage done incorrectly....and DE will show more benefit based on what you've been doing. But carry on...

I am not doing any heavy DLing on DE day, or any heavy benching on DE day.
Yeah you are.
DE Upper
(55%) Bench - 5x3.
Botton Position Bench - 3x3.
DE Lower
(65%) Deadlift - 5x1
Rack pulls BTK - 9x1
Deadlift off 1" block.

[Robert]

Weeks 3-4

ME Lower
Box Squat - 3RM on 10" box, at least 8 sets.
ATG Paused Squat (2sec pause) - 5RM, at least 5 sets.
1/4 Squat - 2x5ish.
Russian Twist - 3x10.

DE Upper
(55%) Bench - 5x3.
Botton Position Bench - 3x3.
CGBench - 5x5.
Cuff work.

DE Lower
(65%) Deadlift - 5x1.
Rack pulls BTK - 9x1.
Deadlift off 1" block - 2x5.
Static holds - more singles.
Weighted situps - 3x10.

ME Upper
CGBench - 3RM, at least 8 sets.
Paused Bench (2sec pause) - 5RM, at least 5 sets.
Chin - 4x5
Cuff work.

[Robert]

Bottom Position benching has no stretch reflex, its harder. Much harder. There is no way as a 100kg bencher I would be using more than 70kg for 3x3 from the bottom position, thats not heavy. Also, BP benching can be hard on the shoulders (like lockouts are - thats why I don't do lockouts), for me, they fall into the NEVER go over 3 reps catagory. Like conventional DL's.

1" deadlifting for 2x5 is NOT heavy.

[Robert]

Yeah but keep the assist work (5x5 etc) seperate from the ME lift if you can, and do more than 1 single on the ME lift. For example take 95% or so and do singles / doubles off the board till you miss. Build a reasonable volume of ME work, not 1 x 1, then leave it at that. On another day come back and do your assist work, then on another day (or session the same day) do the DE type work IF you need it. - GL

Right, I need to make sense of this. If I understand it correctly, I need no 'DE day', more a '5x5 day'. Re-think.

[Robert]

OK, I got some sound as **** advice of Gav and I need to put it into practice. Routine re-think.

1. I don't need speed benching right now.
2. ME day and 5x5 day is the recipe for the time being.
3. Volume on ME days is important, so I will either do 2ME exercises on the same day (ala my 1st post) or maybe go up to a 3RM then back off a bit and do like 2x5 or something?

[PikeKing]

i would do a rep day rather than a DE day

[GoldenArrow]

i would do a rep day rather than a DE day

See, this I don't get. After you do ME you do RE (on something else), after you do DE you can do RE too, so why drop DE for more RE work?

[PikeKing]

hmmm i dont know why to be honest, it just 'feels right'

what bullshit lol

[Robert]

Right, I spent 4 hours thinking about this, nodding and 'yessing' at the wife while she babbles inanely about her day at the salon.

Anyways, I came up with this as a template:

ME: 1. Load 2. Volume 3. Supramaximal 4. Assist
DE: 1. Speed 2+3. Weakness 4. Assist

-It makes sense to include speed work as the benifits must outweight the cons.
-I need volume @ high loads, hence the slightly unorthodox nature of the 2nd exercise on ME days.
-5x5 is a great comprimise for strength/hypertrophy and volume.
-2 exercises that work on weakness for a particular lift are both on DE day, as these will not be high tension wise (bottom position bench for example uses about 80% the load you would normally bench) it fits in nicely.
-I am and have been for some time a big fan of supramaximals (1/4 squats etc etc, and now board press).

Taking the following into consieration, I scribbled this down on a peice of till receipt (this is version 104.10289474 BTW) at work.

Week 1+2

ME Squat/Deadlift
1. Squat - 3RM.
2. Back off 20% and triple it until only get a double.
3. 1/4 Squat - 2x5.
4. Core - 3x10

DE Bench
1. 50% Bench - 5x3
2. Paused Bench - 5x5
3. Close grip bench - 5x5
4. Row -5x5

DE Squat/Deadlift
1. 60% Deadlift - 5x2.
2. BTK Rack Pulls - 5x1.
3. Deadlift off 1" block - 5x1.
4. Static Hold - lots.

ME Bench
1. Bench - 3RM
2. Back off 20% and triple it until only get a double.
3. 2 Board Press - 2x5
4. Chins - 5x5

Week 3+4

ME Squat/Deadlift
1. Box Squat - 3RM.
2. Back off 20% and triple it until only get a double.
3. 1/4 Squat - 2x5.
4. Core - 3x10

DE Bench
1. 50% Bench - 5x3
2. Bottom Position Bench - 5x5
3. DB Bench - 5x5
4. Row -5x5

DE Squat/Deadlift
1. 50% Box Squat - 5x2.
2. ATK Rack Pulls - 5x1.
3. SLDL - 5x5.
4. Static Hold - lots.

ME Bench
1. Close Grip Bench - 3RM
2. Back off 20% and triple it until only get a double.
3. 1 or 3 Board Press - 2x5
4. Chins - 5x5