IC injury rate [Archive]

HardcoreSportsTraining

28-06-2007, 21:40

Thinking about the "I like RDLs" debate, I got to thinking about injuries of regulars on this site....

Off the top of my head I don't think I can think of anyone that hasn't had at least one reasonably serious injury, with the full range of joints and muscles being affected. Again off the top of my head we've had:

Ankle
Knees
Hamstrings
Quads
Hips
Lumbar spine
Shoulder
Elbow
Neck
Eyeball....maybe

If you then look at most of the injuries and it's pretty clear why they happened, does that make IC the dumbest group of 'knowledgeable' people on the internet? I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud - if everyone knows what they are doing, why are so many people getting hurt? We can use the 'it's risky training' and 'everyone gets hurt' arguments I suppose, but is that the case? Really? Is it guaranteed that you will get hurt? Hmm, doesn't sound too appealing to me if that is the case!

I know from my experience every time I have got hurt it's from doing something ****ing stupid.....whether I knew it or not at the time.....hell, I'd have probably argued for hours about the 'safety' of something I was doing in the past that I now wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Maybe we just don't want to listen until it's too late.

Thoughts?

ATZ

28-06-2007, 21:53

I've never injured myself seriously training, only on the rugby field (ankle). I've had the odd niggle training as everyone has - again usually brought on by pushing myself too far too quickly, or trying something new with a stupid weight.

Narc

28-06-2007, 22:01

Old shoulder injury was probably my own fauit, but I didn't know what I was doing back then. Only other thing I've done that I would class as serious would be the hernia, nothing I could have done about that. Endless list of less serious things I've done though which I guess 90% of which were the result of doing something a bit stupid.

madcap

28-06-2007, 22:17

I've never had a serious injury, just dodgy knees every so often

PikeKing

28-06-2007, 22:22

Ankle yup
Knees yup
Hamstrings yup
Quads yup
Hips yup
Lumbar spine yup
Shoulder yup
Elbow yup
Neck yup
Eyeball....maybe probably just cant remember

Thoughts?

most are mine are from not following my own advice/thoughts, normally because i've had my mind set on doing/achieving something and i wont let anything get in my way until the inevitable.

Icepick

28-06-2007, 23:41

Well I carry injuries, some worse than others I just dont really go on about them and just on get with it. Though I do get worried about where I'm going to be in 15 years if I'm already feeling beat up at the age of 24!

666

28-06-2007, 23:55

Well my injuries haven't really been one-off stupidity (lifting-wise at least), just a build-up of things, i.e. shoulder was impingment because I didn't have a clue what external rotation was, back was a combination of natural scoliosis and not knowing about things like excessive lordosis and hip tilt because of tightness etc... So they've been my fault but not recklessness per se, just lack of a rounded programme.

the block

29-06-2007, 00:58

messed my back up deadlifting before I knew anything about training - going back to pre-MT days :016:
sort of haunted me for ages, more or less a-ok now, just need to stretch certain areas regularly.

shoulder has been an area of concern for me - direct work can trigger twinges and stuff, and for a few months I ignored the pain and put it down to the bench being narrower which was totally stupid and wrong :044:
Under control now, I limit the amount of shoulder work I do and deal with twinges etc... promptly.

The other thing I am plagued by is ankle sprains, both ankles are victims, which unfortunately have diddly squat to do with training. Have had recurring problems since I was about 14 years old :022:

I can't speak for everyone, but I would say that I am lazy with pre-hab stuff which is my downfall.

plateau2

29-06-2007, 09:36

Sprain my wrists annually.

Had an issue with my right elbow most of this year, however has cleared up the last 6 weeks.

Hurt my right knee when squatting, spotter pushed me down when I had reached failure. Still not 100%.

Left shoulder - about 7 years ago.

Have twinges under my right scapular.

plateau2

29-06-2007, 09:37

29-06-2007, 09:54

Touch wood, i havn't had anything serious though i have twinged my back and then made it worse by not resting, i can squarely rest the blame for that on myself. I've really only just started lifting though... so i'm sure theres plenty of time to cripple myself :044:

29-06-2007, 09:54

...if everyone knows what they are doing, why are so many people getting hurt?

I know from my experience every time I have got hurt it's from doing something ****ing stupid...

Just about sums it up.

You will never get to a stage where, whatever knowledge you have, you will never incur an injury. It's like saying you will never make a mistake, it's impossible to acheive.
You will only ever reduce the risk for injury but never completely eliminate it.

Beaker

29-06-2007, 09:56

hmmm...
Hernia - happened as a child
Broken wrist - skateboarding
Broken sternum/whiplash - falling some distance onto my neck, mountainbiking accident
Broken finger - Karate
Fractured ankle - Jumping down a flight of stairs in school to escape detention
Nasty shoulder injury - Jiu jitsu (kimura)

No lifting related injuries yet (touch wood) ahh I dont have wood but you get me I'm sure

29-06-2007, 09:58

True, if professional athletes still manage to sustain injuries with all the recovery aids and resources available to them, does it make it almost inevitable that, if training hard, your average joe or josephine will hurt themselves at some point?

666

29-06-2007, 10:39

Fractured ankle - Jumping down a flight of stairs in school to escape detention

:038:

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 10:55

I don't think so - pro athletes are forced to perform week in week out, they also have to do lots of different types of training plus there is much more uncontrollable in their world. If the question is, does someone doing a bit of weight training to get bigger and stronger HAVE to accept that they will at some point get badly hurt, I would have to say I don't think so. I would also say it's more than likely if they train 'normally'.

29-06-2007, 10:58

But there is an element of risk in everything we do. In training its risk from injury, wether you accept as inevitable or not is not the point, the risk is still there.

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 11:02

There's risk in crossing the road, we don't go around saying "Well if you've been crossing the road for 5 years it's inevitable you'll get hit by a car" though. We also don't cross the road without looking, which seems to be what some people's training is like.

29-06-2007, 11:13

Well, obviously not but looking left and right as you cross the road reduces the risk of being hit by a car not eliminates it.

Even with more knowledge than you started with we can't completely eliminate the possibilty of incurring injury, the risk should be lower tho'.

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 11:16

Should being the operative word - if you see a car coming and still step into the road doesn't that make you a bit stupid?

29-06-2007, 11:20

Pretty much what i was going to say. I guess if you are pushing yourself and training hard its more than likely that some minor niggles and aches and pains might turn up, but i would like to think that getting 'badly hurt' was for the most part avoidable if you keep up with prehab and don't do anything as massively stupid as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m6vcyQqx_Q&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Et%2Dnation%2Ecom%2FreadTop ic%2Edo%3Fid%3D1619235

29-06-2007, 11:21

Should being the operative word - if you see a car coming and still step into the road doesn't that make you a bit stupid?

But what about that one time where you just don't 'see' the car coming ?

Your experienced at crossing the road but that doesn't stop you from making a mistake.

I know what your saying in your first post but all the knowledge in the world won't prevent that one mistake, accident or whatever from happening. Does that make you "dumb" ?

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 11:25

Depends if someone else saw it and warned you I suppose! :023:

If you can give an example of a training-related injury that was impossible to see coming, maybe. Even then, I think the majority of the time the point stands, your 'car you don't see coming' may be a 1 in 100,000 type of event however.

PikeKing

29-06-2007, 11:27

best way to avoid that would be to not deadlift in the road on a shape bend

29-06-2007, 11:35

Depends if someone else saw it and warned you I suppose! :023:

Ah, you mean if I was with someone more experienced showing me the way, would reduce the risk wouldn't it :D

If you can give an example of a training-related injury that was impossible to see coming, maybe. Even then, I think the majority of the time the point stands, your 'car you don't see coming' may be a 1 in 100,000 type of event however.

No, i can't give an example tbh but does the body warn you in all instances when there could be a problem ?

Think that 1 in 100,000 is a bit high, how many times do you step into the road at the point you look right again rather than waiting after looking left.

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 11:37

If you know what you're looking for, in the instance that we're talking about, I would say 99% of the time yes. My main job, I am becoming increasingly aware, is being able to talk the language it uses.

Beaker

29-06-2007, 11:43

best way to avoid that would be to not deadlift in the road on a shape bend

Think you've just found a new extreme sport there !!

29-06-2007, 12:04

My main job, I am becoming increasingly aware, is being able to talk the language it uses.

Can you elaborate on that, I'm not sure what you mean.

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 12:12

I was referring to
does the body warn you in all instances when there could be a problem ?
when I said
My main job, I am becoming increasingly aware, is being able to talk the language it uses.
I.e. the body will tell you when the type of problem we are talking about is going to happen, but if you don't speak the language you carry on. Same as if a venezuelan was shouting "Don't cross the road!" you might think 'Mad foreigner' and carry on!

29-06-2007, 12:19

Ye, gotcha'.

So, more knowledge = reduced probability off injury but still around 1% (guess) chance an injury could occur.Lesser knowledge = greater probability of injury.

At what point do you consider that you've gained enough knowledge to train safely ?

Bullneck Pacifist Gimboid

29-06-2007, 12:19

You forgot Auron's exploding head.

My shoulder problems are entirely my own fault, since I've been keeping up with scap and RC work regularly and actually paying attention to how it reacts to stuff instead of blindly aiming for 8 reps with everything all the time, it's been fine.

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 12:26

Ye, gotcha'.

So, more knowledge = reduced probability off injury but still around 1% (guess) chance an injury could occur.Lesser knowledge = greater probability of injury.

1%? So if you train 4 times a week and do everything right you will still get injured within 6 months? Or do you mean 1% of the correct training population?

At what point do you consider that you've gained enough knowledge to train safely ?
I don't know. I don't even know if I know enough to train someone safely TBH. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, it's just an interesting discussion but I'd say for sure someone with no knowledge deciding on a program from flex or something and going in the gym and training on their own is akin to someone with no idea about engines fiddling with the valves in their car and then going flat out on the motorway - probably not that good an idea! The state we are currently in using that analogy is that the majority of mechanics would also be guessing how an engine works....

29-06-2007, 12:34

1%? So if you train 4 times a week and do everything right you will still get injured within 6 months? Or do you mean 1% of the correct training population?

I was refering to the (possibly) 1% of the time your body could incur an injury without prior warning, from your example :

If you know what you're looking for, in the instance that we're talking about, I would say 99% of the time yes. My main job, I am becoming increasingly aware, is being able to talk the language it uses.

I don't know. I don't even know if I know enough to train someone safely TBH. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, it's just an interesting discussion but I'd say for sure someone with no knowledge deciding on a program from flex or something and going in the gym and training on their own is akin to someone with no idea about engines fiddling with the valves in their car and then going flat out on the motorway - probably not that good an idea! The state we are currently in using that analogy is that the majority of mechanics would also be guessing how an engine works....

Think its back to reducing risk but as you can never be in control of all variables an injury is still possible. I don't think it can be considered "dumb" unless you intentionally carry on with something that is causing discomfort or pain.
Which means I should immobilise my knee right now...

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 12:43

I was refering to the (possibly) 1% of the time your body could incur an injury without prior warning, from your example :
Ah, I was referring to there being a warning 99% of the time there is/will be a problem.

Think its back to reducing risk but as you can never be in control of all variables an injury is still possible. I don't think it can be considered "dumb" unless you intentionally carry on with something that is causing discomfort or pain.
What if it doesn't cause discomfort or pain but it is still obvious to those who know what to look for? To take your example to a stupid degree, does that mean if you can't feel pain you can't get hurt?

Which means I should immobilise my knee right now...
Maybe. I can't really tell over the internet, but if what I suggested hasn't at least helped, maybe think about getting another opinion.

29-06-2007, 12:50

What if it doesn't cause discomfort or pain but it is still obvious to those who know what to look for?

Puts us back to at what level of knowledge / experience do we consider it safe to train or reduce the probability of injury.

Maybe. I can't really tell over the internet, but if what I suggested hasn't at least helped, maybe think about getting another opinion.

Well, yes and no, agressively stretching calfs has made it feel more stable on the lateral lunge warm up.

HardcoreSportsTraining

29-06-2007, 12:52

Puts us back to at what level of knowledge / experience do we consider it safe to train or reduce the probability of injury.
I guess it depends on what's wrong with you - if nothing, maybe you can get away with doing more stupid stuff!
Well, yes and no, agressively stretching calfs has made it feel more stable on the lateral lunge warm up.
Too many possibles here tbh

29-06-2007, 12:55

I guess it depends on what's wrong with you - if nothing, maybe you can get away with doing more stupid stuff!

I suppose :)

Have enjoyed the discussion too :023:

Too many possibles here tbh

Ye, i know, was just after some pointers when i got in touch.

Tricky

29-06-2007, 14:26

Lots of interesting stuff here. Some points in no particualr order:

* IMO striving to acheive a particular goal or level (which is currently well above the ablility of the athelete) inevitably suggests that the athlete needs to, or possibly, is more prepared to, risk more on order to acheive.

* The fact that all posters on this site have taken the decision to spend their free time discussing their training and goals suggests they may fall into the above category, I.E are highly motivated to achieve goals and therefore are prepared to risk and sacrifice more to achieve them.

* For those involved in strength sports, as opposed to aethetics, theres obviously more inherent risk of injury. Pulling max weights (either max load or max reps) inevitably is going to incur more injuries as you are operating right on the very limit of what your body is capable of.

* I think the majority of training "injuries" are actually more like "conditions"...An injury suggests to me that it was caused by a finite event, e.g jerking a pull, or dropping a bar on your chest. Many probs people have had on this site are things like inflammations, tendonitisis and impingements. These things often build up gradually and i DO think people are aware of them. Whether they a) posess the knowlege to know how to cure/treat them and/or b) are prepared to actually stop training long enough to prevent that is another matter.

* Sometimes we just choose not to treat or cant treat. I've got pretty sore impingement in my shoulders right now. Im a decorator. I cant afford not to work. My work involves constant overhead repetitive movement.