View Full Version : 4 Weeks GVT
Hello Everyone!
I did have a journal over at MT, but since I get absolutely no input whatsoever from anyone there I thought I'd move the journal to Iron City.
Week 2.
Workout 1:
Deadlift 52.5kg - 10/10/10/8/8/10/8/7/7/5 (Rest Interval - 90s)
Seated OHP 30kg - 10/10/10/6/7/5/6/6/6/5 (Rest Interval - 60s)
To make things simple for me I will not include the weight of the bar. The bar I use for deadlifts, OHP and rows is 5kg and the bar I use for squats is 10kg.
So the lifts above are actually 57.5kg and 35kg.
I think this workout went well. I was more consistent on the deadlifts than last week, even with a 2.5kg increase in weight. I missed a lot of reps on the OHP but it is important to remember that shoulders fatigue quite quickly and there is usually a sudden drop off in performance. I pushed really hard on the third set, and it was difficult to recovery during sets from then on. It was bloody hard work!
Next workout will be Friday if my shoulders and triceps are recovered.
PikeKing
10-11-2004, 21:54
oooh interesting, nice to see something different.
That workout looks brutal to say the least!
Whats the doms like with this amount of volume?
Man of Steel
10-11-2004, 22:05
All the people in my gym do GVT for curls and benching.
Ha ha. The DOMS are terrible apparently PK. TBH it takes balls to do 10 sets of anything, boredom and fatigue would prevent me from doing it! Mark will have v.good strength endurance at the end of this though.
How many weeks in total has it been Mark?
Whats the doms like with this amount of volume?
It seems to depend upon the exercise really. Squats, deadlifts and OHP are worst for the DOMS. I get no DOMS from rows at all really! I woke up this morning with no DOMS. I thought I'd got away with it, but it has been steadily building up through the day. I doubt my triceps will be recovered for benching tomorrow.
How many weeks in total has it been Mark?
I did the trial week plus one 'proper' week. Yesterdays workout was the first workout of week 2.
BengDogg
11-11-2004, 15:45
can i be thick and ask what GVT is ? also whats the routine look like?
All the people in my gym do GVT for curls and benching.
Yeah, some schmuck over at MT was doing 10x10 for concentration curls... on top of about 3 other bicep isolation exercises!
10x10 for benching is good though. It is a really different challenge to the low rep benching that I got used to. Burning forearms is something I am not used to while benching! :)
can i be thick and ask what GVT is ? also whats the routine look like?
GVT = German Volume Training/ 10x10 method.
My own version of this training method is:
Workout 1:
Deadlift 10x10
Seated OHP 10x10
Workout 2:
Dumbbell Bench 10x10
Barbell Row 10x10
Dumbell Curl 4x10
Workout 3:
Back Squat 10x10
Calf Raise 5x10
Decline Crunches 4x10 (probably)
BengDogg
11-11-2004, 15:55
Looks brutal!
I think I will collect an Indian takeaway on my way home tonight! :036:
I need more fuel for the recovery!
I still have DOMS today. No workout for me :089:
Ha ha ha.
Seriously, DOMS doesn't mean you can't train mate. When I first started JohnnyFives hypertrophy routine, I had major DOMS all the time, but by week 3 it had gone completely. I don't get much in the way of DOMS in my legs anymore.
But obviously, recovery differs from person to person and you are no doubt in a better position to judge your state of fitness than I. So i'll leave you with that mate.
Ha ha ha.
Seriously, DOMS doesn't mean you can't train mate. When I first started JohnnyFives hypertrophy routine, I had major DOMS all the time, but by week 3 it had gone completely. I don't get much in the way of DOMS in my legs anymore.
But obviously, recovery differs from person to person and you are no doubt in a better position to judge your state of fitness than I. So i'll leave you with that mate.
I don't like to train with DOMS. The workout will be less effective than if I was completely recovered.
I have the DOMS in my triceps and lower back. They get hammered by the deadlifts and OHP. I would be doing bench press and barbell row today... So I might as well wait until tomorrow.
Someone suggested that I put ice on the sore muscles, so I am going to give that a try from now on.
Ha ha ha.
I don't get much in the way of DOMS in my legs anymore..
Try 10x10 squats! :D
PikeKing
12-11-2004, 14:05
i would use heat on sore muscles
i would use heat on sore muscles
Is there any reasoning for heat or cold on sore muscles? I haven't really heard of it before today.
Is there any reasoning for heat or cold on sore muscles? I haven't really heard of it before today.
if it is really bad rotate from cold to hot every 30 mins, i did this with my leg when i pulled a muscle and it helped immensly
and i think its to increase blood flow
the block
13-11-2004, 02:26
looking forward to this one. its on my list of things to do. the t-mag version posted on here by knighty looks lethal. all the best
Call me a cynic, but 10x10 on movements like deadlifts just sounds silly to me.
To maintain form, I'd be using a baby weight?
DMPM:
10x10 on deadlifts does involve a lower weight, but it makes heavy deadlifting feel easy! I was previously doing 3x5, 4x6, 3x3, 6x2, singles etc and they are no challenge compared to 10x10. I think you can only really appreciate the challenge of 10x10 once you've tried it. I overestimated most of my weights for the first week because I didn't realise quite how hard GVT is. In a way, I will be happy when this four weeks are over! In other ways I actually enjoy it though. Especially the squatting! I love 10x10 squatting!
With regard to form on deadlifts, you have to focus intensely on the form throughout the set. It can be done.
BengDogg
13-11-2004, 13:37
what %ages are you lifting?
what %ages are you lifting?
%1RM? I haven't really worked them out...
OHP (standing) 1RM = 65kg
Deadlift 1RM = 120kg
Squat 1RM = 110kg
Barbell Row 1RM = 70kg (maybe more - I haven't tried)
Dumbbell Bench = 40kg per hand.
(PS - I know my deadlift is low! :D )
For this weeks workouts (10x10) I will be using:
Deadlift: 52.5kg (+5kg bar)
OHP (seated): 30kg (+5kg bar)
Squat: 50kg (+10kg bar)
Barbell Row: 31kg (+5kg bar)
Dumbbell Bench: 21kg per hand
Apparenty you should use 60% 1RM for 10x10. I think that is bullshit though. There is no way I could get 10x10 with 60% 1RM on any exercise using 1 minute rest intervals!
BengDogg
13-11-2004, 14:34
so around 55 -65% witrhout me doing propper maths
Week 2. Workout 2.(13/11)
Dumbbell Bench: 21kg (per hand) - 10/10/10/10/6/7/6/6/6/5.
Barbell Row: 31kg - 10/10/10/8/8/7/6/6/5/5.
Dumbbell Curls: 11kg - Left:10/8/4/3 Right: 10/10/5/4.
The bench press was really tough. I really pushed for the last few reps on the fourth set to get the full 10 reps, and after that I was struggling to recover between sets, hence the sudden drop in performance. If I would have just stopped at 8 on the fourth set, I would have got 8 on the next few sets.
I'm not happy with the rows. I just can't make any progress, and for some reason I can't put 100% into rows on 10x10.
Curls pretty much the same as last time. I did the left arm immediately after rowing which explains the slight decrease in performance since last week.
PikeKing
15-11-2004, 00:11
I'm not happy with the rows. I just can't make any progress, and for some reason I can't put 100% into rows on 10x10.
why do you think that is?
maybe some kind of supportted row or seated row would be better?
why do you think that is?
maybe some kind of supportted row or seated row would be better?
I seem to be able to knock out a few extra reps on pushing movements. With OHP and bench press I can drive my feet into the ground and push as hard as I can to lift the weight (even if it takes a few seconds to lock out). With the rows I just can't put that sort of effort in. I think one arm supported rows would be more suitable because I'm sure I will be able to pull harder with my torso supported. I've only got two more rowing sessions so I might as well just stick with barbell rows.
the block
15-11-2004, 06:36
you could squeeze the bar harder and make sure that the bar is travelling the shortest distance possible
Agree with the PK meister. CS Rows are a better idea IMO.
I've got my squat workout in about 15 minutes. Will I get anywhere near 10x10 with 60kg? ....
Well, I'm back from my workout..... and I missed a grand total of....... 5 reps out of 100! YES! YES! YES!
Squat: 50kg (+10kg bar = 60kg) 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/8/9/8!
I tried calf raises and crunches after but my calfs and abs kept going into cramp. I have decided to allocate calf/ab work to a separate day. At the moment I am just slinging them on to the end of the workout and putting no effort in. If I put them on another day I can put 100% in!
PikeKing
15-11-2004, 21:53
good work, thats gonna hurt in the morning!
Whats next keep the same weight until u get the full 100 or increase the weight as u nearly made it?
Cheers PK!
I will up the weight by 2.5kg next week. I will still probably get 10 on the first 5-6 sets, but it will probably be 6-8 for the final 4-5.
The total weight squatted in todays workout was 5700kg. Next week might have a total slightly less than that, but more weight will be squatted in the first 5-6 sets than in todays workout.
more weight will be squatted in the first 5-6 sets than in todays workout.
Good!
Have you noticed an increase in appitite since starting this?
Have you noticed an increase in appitite since starting this?
I tend to want to eat a lot when I have bad DOMS. I don't eat that much more though.
I have a deadlift workout in around two hours. I am going to load 55kg to the bar for 10x10, and I guarantee I will get more reps than I did with 52.5kg! If I don't... Robert can kick my arse!
Well, I kept to my promise with the deadlifts, but the OHP just completely ****ed up....
Deadlift: 55kg - 10/10/10/10/10/10/7/7/8/7/
OHP: 31kg - 10/10/6/6.........
KNOCK IT ON THE HEAD.
Its good that you had the determination to stik it out, and no doubt you have improved your work capacity and learned a few things about yourself, but IMO it is time to call it a day a re-assess what you want for training. If your goals are as they were before you started this routine, then maybe a lower/medium volume one would suit you better.
I want to carry on with it, but 10x10 only really works well for bench press and squats. It is ok for deadlifts too. But the rows and OHP just don't work at all.
I had already planned a routine to use for 8 weeks after this, so I will probably just start that.
Ok....
Workout 1:
Standing OHP
Deadlift
Dumbbell Bench
One Arm Rows
Workout 2
Back Squat
Dips
Bent Row (ie bent over narrow-grip row with tricep bar)
Shrugs
I don't want to just be adding weight each week. I got so bored of doing that last time and completely lost motivation. I want to be manipulating the volume, rest intervals etc as well as load.
Here is my plan: (I haven't thought it through enough, but here it is anyway).
Week 1: All exercises 3x10 with 3 minute rest interval.
Week 2: All exercises 4x8 with 1 minute rest interval with same weight as previous week.
Week 3: All exercises 3x10 with 3 minute rest interval with increased weight.
Week 4: All exercises 6x6 with 1 minute rest interval with same weight as previous week.
Week 5: All exercises 3x8 with 3 minute rest interval and increased weight.
Week 6: All exercises 4x6 with 1 minute rest interval and same weight as previous week.
Week 7: All exercises 3x5 with 3 minute rest interval and increased weight.
Week 8: All exerices 8x3 with 1 minute rest interval and same weight as previous week.
Or I could just do 4x6 on everything and add weight each week.
Any suggestions and commentsare very welcome!
PikeKing
19-11-2004, 22:42
looks like a bit too much though has gone into that mate, I dont have a clue how well that would or wouldnt work.
good exercise choices though
Man of Steel
19-11-2004, 23:05
I've got a bad habit of trying to make my routines too fancy and complex when a simple one is all you need if you're a beginner, so I'd go for the 4x6 but change the exercises every few months for a bit of variety. I'd do the Deadlifts first on day one and make them nine singles or doubles. Apart from that the routine looks sound enough.
I don't know what to doooooooo!
I just don't want to go back to the 3x5 fullbody workout. I don't want a a split routine either!
:022:
PikeKing
20-11-2004, 00:05
How about a full body routine that has differenet aims each session?
Explosive Lifting
Clean & Jerk 5x3
Jump Squat 3x5
Dynamic Supine Row 5x3
Repitition Day
Front Squat 4x8
Pull ups 3x8
Dips 3x8
Max Effort
Deadlift or Back Squat 5RM
Bench Press up to heavy 5
Chest Supported Rows 3x5
PikeKing
20-11-2004, 00:13
Theres always the alternative mass routine http://www.iron-city.net/showthread.php?t=118
Man of Steel
20-11-2004, 00:41
I think you need to reassess your goals and become a powerlifter. Try this routine that I'm going to do in a few weeks:
ME
ME - 3,2,1RM (Goodmorning - Can be upper or lower body)
Squat ass. (Pullthrough 3x8)
Bench ass. (Push press 3x8)
Core (Ab pulldown 3x8)
Pull
Deadlift - 9x1
Row - 5x5 (Barbell row)
Grip (Static holds 3x5 secs D/O)
Push
Squat - 5x5
Bench - 5x5
R.C. (Cuban rotations/Rear laterals 2x10 supersetted)
Core (Side bends 3x8)
ME exercise changes every three weeks and the assistance stuff can change every six weeks.
PikeKing
20-11-2004, 00:48
I think you need to reassess your goals and become a powerlifter.
why?
maybe you should become a bodybuilder?
I think you need to reassess your goals and become a powerlifter. Try this routine that I'm going to do in a few weeks:
I have done 5x5, 3x5, 3x3, singles etc for the last year. I am so bloody bored of turning up, doing 3 sets of this, 3 sets of that, then going home. The GVT was great for squats and bench, but there seems little point in continuing when only half of it is working.
Anyway, I don't want to be a chubby, unhealthy powerlifter. I am looking to find a routine that strikes a balance between bodybuilding, strength and health. Picking heavy weights up 1-5 times is rubbish for what I want to achieve from training.
Man of Steel
20-11-2004, 00:57
Since Mark is changing his routine and wants to try something different then he might like to try a more strength/powerlifting based routine. If he enjoys it enough he could become a powerlifter. I don't like training in high reps.
Man of Steel
20-11-2004, 00:59
Didn't see your last message there Mark.
PikeKing
20-11-2004, 01:04
Since Mark is changing his routine and wants to try something different then he might like to try a more strength/powerlifting based routine. If he enjoys it enough he could become a powerlifter. I don't like training in high reps.
my post seems a little hostile, sorry that wasnt my intention.
i am just trying to encourage people to live and let live, bodybuilders and powerlifters living in harmony!!
I am just going to go with the routine I described earlier. If the rep/set/rest interval plan is not working, I will just do 3-4x6 or 3x5 for all exercises. I want to try something that isn't so bloody boring as just 3x5 for every exercise.
PikeKing: Shall I start a new journal or can I change the name of this one?
PikeKing
20-11-2004, 01:29
up to u mate, start a new one with a link to this one if u like
If he enjoys it enough he could become a powerlifter. I don't like training in high reps.
good for you, but Mark likes training with high reps, has different personal goals, and would rather use weight training as a means to an end rather than getting a total which is the be all and end all!
I think you need to reassess your goals and become a powerlifter.
whhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy does everybody have to become a powerlifter???!!!!!!!
What difference does it make to you or any other powerlifters?
I've changed my mind. The last thing I want at the moment is to start a routine and find that it just doesn't work. I will therefore use a straightforward fullbody for the next 8 weeks.
In the past I have done two large full body workouts per week. This time I am going to do three full body workouts per "week" with three compound exercises rather than 4-5.
Here is the plan:
Workout 1:
Back Squat 3x6
Dumbbell Incline Bench 3x6
One Arm Row 3x6
Workout 2:
OHP 3x6
Deadlift 3x6
Calf Raises, Crunches, D Curls.
Workout 3:
Barbell Hack Squat 3x6
Narrow-Grip Bent-Row 3x6
Dips 3x6
I will perform each workout when I feel recovered. At least a day between workouts.
Interesting exercise selection mate. Keep us bang up to date with BB Hack Squats. If its any help, I am absolutely loving Zerchers ATM. I am working on my flexability too, I want to Zercher DL before too long.
the block
21-11-2004, 14:57
so whats your feedback about the GVT routine you've just done as a whole?
you've said that 10x10 doesnt work for all body parts.... anything else?
hows strength, size, appearance, effect on food intake, sleep etc...
cheers
so whats your feedback about the GVT routine you've just done as a whole?
you've said that 10x10 doesnt work for all body parts.... anything else?
hows strength, size, appearance, effect on food intake, sleep etc...
cheers
10x10 was great for squats, deadlifts and bench. I am convinced that I could have gained well on these exercises if I had continued for 12 weeks. The rows and OHP just weren't working. I don't really know why. Perhaps 5x10 would have been better for these exercises.
The DOMS was annoying. It lasts for days after a workout.
I have lost a few pounds. Perhaps I would have gained if I maintained the routine over 12 weeks. I can't imagine that I would get smaller by building up to 10x10 on squats with 70kg.
Appearance is worse on upperbody. I feel smaller than I did when I was doing full body workouts with 3x3. My legs look bigger though, and my lower back "feels" bigger.
the block
21-11-2004, 16:13
i'm with you on the "feels bigger" :045:
i;ve just started a high rep routine and i feel bigger too :023:
Man of Steel
22-11-2004, 12:29
I think you need to reassess your goals and become a powerlifter. Maybe I should've added a smilie in to show it was said tongue in cheek.
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