Core exercises

[steve]

Can anyone advise me on the best exercises to strengthen my core/torso. Currently I’m doing two of the following on each of my lower days.

Weighted decline situps, planks, leg raises, saxon side bends, regular side bends, crunches.

Thanks

[Angel Delight]

you need to include some exercises for transverse abs like Pilates based exercises. Deadlifts will work the core too!

[steve]

Which pilates exercises would you suggest?
I'm sure you'd need to be very flexible to do most of them? I've been working on my flexibility for a few weeks now, so it's possible I could do some of the simpler ones I guess.
I deadlift once a week.

[Angel Delight]

cOOL.

You do not need to be flexible. Pilates is very slow and controlled. You need to focus on keeping your spine in a neutral postion and just gently bracing the abs whilst doing the exercise. Its difficult to explain the exercises online, probably best to get a book. Men think Pilates is for girls but I've seen men achieve great things with their weight training and lifting by including some Pilates based exercises in their program.

A simple one is toe taps sometimes called dead bug. Lie on your back, knees at a table top position lifted at a 90 degree angle. Contract the abs, breathe out as you lower the right leg slowly, raise the right leg then lower the left leg, whilst staying in neutral and focusing on the lower abs.

There are hundreds of Pilates based exercises from basic to very advanced. I use a vast repotoire in my Pilates and Synergize classes.

[Angel Delight]

I notice you do PLANKS. Planks are a fab exercise for the core. You can progress on to moving planks and multi directional planks once you have mastered the art of holding a normal plank or a side plank for 1 min or more.

Its really important that you keep the abdominals braced throughout. Contract tight as you can to protect the lower back, you don't want it to dip or arch.

[Angel Delight]

P.S. Its great you are working on your flexibility too. Flexibility is an under estimated, important part of fitness. By keeping flexible it will help you with your weight training by giving you a vaster range of movement and also help to prevent muscle injury.

[steve]

cOOL.

You do not need to be flexible. Pilates is very slow and controlled. You need to focus on keeping your spine in a neutral postion and just gently bracing the abs whilst doing the exercise. Its difficult to explain the exercises online, probably best to get a book. Men think Pilates is for girls but I've seen men achieve great things with their weight training and lifting by including some Pilates based exercises in their program.

A simple one is toe taps sometimes called dead bug. Lie on your back, knees at a table top position lifted at a 90 degree angle. Contract the abs, breathe out as you lower the right leg slowly, raise the right leg then lower the left leg, whilst staying in neutral and focusing on the lower abs.

There are hundreds of Pilates based exercises from basic to very advanced. I use a vast repotoire in my Pilates and Synergize classes.

I’ll have a look online to see which exercises takes my fancy and I’ll give it a shot.

I notice you do PLANKS. Planks are a fab exercise for the core. You can progress on to moving planks and multi directional planks once you have mastered the art of holding a normal plank or a side plank for 1 min or more.

Its really important that you keep the abdominals braced throughout. Contract tight as you can to protect the lower back, you don't want it to dip or arch.

I do find myself dipping or arching sometimes, but I’ve improved a lot since I first did them.

P.S. Its great you are working on your flexibility too. Flexibility is an under estimated, important part of fitness. By keeping flexible it will help you with your weight training by giving you a vaster range of movement and also help to prevent muscle injury.

I’ve recently incorporated Olympic squats into my routine, and find that since working on flexibility, I can now easily make the required depth compared to when I tried a few weeks ago. Another reason I work on flexibility is I have a gay goal of wanting to be able to do the splits :o ,lol. But I’m nowhere near to being able to do it at the moment.

Thanks for your help :023:

[Angel Delight]

Hey thats a great goal! I used to run alot a few years ago and I was really tight, especially in the hamstrings. I worked on my flexibility and now I can do the splits. If I can do it, you can do it too! Best of Luck!

[Tricky]

not to undermine AD here but I completely disagree. TVA is activated in viurtually every weight bearing excersise you do, theres no need to try and isolate it, seeing as its impossible anyway.

Your heading for imbalance heaven, by completely neglecting your erectors and QL.

Roll outs.

Saxons.

Weighted Roundback Hypers / Roundback GM's.

You will (EDIT - 'probably') never need anything else.

[Angel Delight]

only if you know how to activate the TVA correctly and Pilates trains you to do that.

Why do so many weight lifters get lower back problems?

I agree with your statement but initially Pilates would be a good thing to do and then progress on.

Plus I did not mention anything about neglecting errectors or QL. All good programs have to be balanced. I'm living proof my way works, I've never had an injury or an inbalance.

[kinkymisspinky]

Sorry, AD, I don't mean to upset you but I agree with Tricky...


Why do so many weight lifters get lower back problems?


Trunk stabilisation/mobilisation is a complex process involving many different muscles. I don't think any single muscle can be said to be more or less important in contributing to lower back pain/dysfunction.

only if you know how to activate the TVA correctly and Pilates trains you to do that.

TVA doesn't usually work in isolation, it usually activates automatically along with all the other muscles that are required for trunk stability. The contribution of individual muscles to trunk stability is reflexively controlled and "deliberate attempts to consciously change the patterns of muscle involvement in a dynamic movement may slow down or disrupt important aspects of neural processing and distort the lifting pattern, thereby leading to inefficiency and possible injury." (Siff)

I'm living proof my way works, I've never had an injury or an inbalance.

Sorry, one example doesn't constitute scientific evidence.

[Angel Delight]

I'm not upset. It's a free country, everyone is entitled to their oppinion and there is scientific evidence to suggest the above.

However, you two are complicating issues, at the end of the day at this stage in his training program, he will benefit from some Pilates based exercises to compliment everything else in my oppinion.

[PikeKing]

god i am not getting involved in this

its not as black and white as either party believes

[Angel Delight]

Bugger off you, you know you are anti Pilates :038:

We all have valid points, nothing in Fitness and Training is black and white.

[PikeKing]

you bugger off, pilates fag

[Angel Delight]

Yeah but I'm looking good on it aren't I mofo?!

[PikeKing]

yes you look great, though its nothing to do with the pilates, as its a load of wank

its more to do with doing 548 spin classes per week and training with weights like a man and not fanny about with the pink dumbbells

[van_halen]

Why do so many weight lifters get lower back problems?


Tbh very few of the weightlifters or powerlifters I've met have had problems with the lower back (can only think of 1 and he's also a strongman - dangerous sport but fun). In fact more of my (non weigtlifting) fellow office workers have had problems with their back (3 had to take time off).

Most weightlifters I know have knee problems! Lol!!

Just in my experience of course

[Angel Delight]

yes thats probably true. Using good form and technique is going to keep the back safe. Office workers do suffer with postural problems.

[Angel Delight]

Yeah but I'm looking good on it aren't I mofo?!

This is a joke by the way. Even Fitness Instructors who are suppossed to know how to look good have insecurities. I've had many problems with low self esteem, lack of self confidence, inferiority complex and self doubt in the past.

Nowadays, I work hard on keeping fit and keeping strong as it makes me feel better mentally, I don't care as much, as I did, what people think about the way i look. I know that I am popular in this area with my clients. Not because people aspire to have my figure, but because I am friendly, genuine, kind hearted, helpful, caring, sympathetic, adaptable and make them feel special, comfortable, have a laugh and some fun in the classes I teach.

[Angel Delight]

Can anyone advise me on the best exercises to strengthen my core/torso. Currently I’m doing two of the following on each of my lower days.

Weighted decline situps, planks, leg raises, saxon side bends, regular side bends, crunches.

Thanks


Hi Mecdomorph, sorry to go off the point.

Try everything suggested. Pilates will benefit you in my opinion. Different things work for different people. Its finding whats right for you and keeping an OPEN MIND. On these sort of forums people get blinkered.

[Scourge]

1) Unless I've missed it in the thread, nobody has asked mecdomorph what non-'core' training he is currently doing and what his training goals are, making it effectively impossible to give him appropriate training advice.

2) I'm with Tricky and KMP on the training theory. The TVA acts in conjunction with the other muscles of the torso. Attempting to improve the performance of a single muscle in isolation is an exercise [haha...] in creating dysfunction and may increase the trainee's risk of injury (all other factors remaining equal).

Attempts to isolate the TVA may theoretically be useful in people with existing TVA dysfunction in attempting to improve the sum function of the torso, but I can't see how we can prescribe these methods to mecdomorph without any information that he is suffering from such problems.

That said, some people argue that attempting to isolating the TVA under any circumstances, dysfunction or no, is misguided and that the principles behind the philosophy of TVA activation are based on the incorrect interpretation of studies showing perturbed patterns of TVA activation in individuals following the occurence of back pain (because all muscles of the 'core' show perturbed firing patterns post-back pain, not just the TVA) (McGill, Cholewicki).

[HardcoreSportsTraining]

Glutes.

[Angel Delight]

Same to you with brass knobs on!

[HardcoreSportsTraining]

Like Goldmember

[Angel Delight]

1) Unless I've missed it in the thread, nobody has asked mecdomorph what non-'core' training he is currently doing and what his training goals are, making it effectively impossible to give him appropriate training advice.

2) I'm with Tricky and KMP on the training theory. The TVA acts in conjunction with the other muscles of the torso. Attempting to improve the performance of a single muscle in isolation is an exercise [haha...] in creating dysfunction and may increase the trainee's risk of injury (all other factors remaining equal).

Attempts to isolate the TVA may theoretically be useful in people with existing TVA dysfunction in attempting to improve the sum function of the torso, but I can't see how we can prescribe these methods to mecdomorph without any information that he is suffering from such problems.

That said, some people argue that attempting to isolating the TVA under any circumstances, dysfunction or no, is misguided and that the principles behind the philosophy of TVA activation are based on the incorrect interpretation of studies showing perturbed patterns of TVA activation in individuals following the occurence of back pain (because all muscles of the 'core' show perturbed firing patterns post-back pain, not just the TVA) (McGill, Cholewicki).


Scourge .....so wise and learned!

Good to see your are still around.

[steve]

Hi Mecdomorph, sorry to go off the point.

Try everything suggested. Pilates will benefit you in my opinion. Different things work for different people. Its finding whats right for you and keeping an OPEN MIND. On these sort of forums people get blinkered.

I am very open minded, so I’ll give it a shot once I’ve checked the exercises out properly. I also like tricky’s suggestion, since I’ve never done roll outs or good mornings before. Can’t do hypers though, since I haven’t got the bench to do them.

Cheers

[steve]

1) Unless I've missed it in the thread, nobody has asked mecdomorph what non-'core' training he is currently doing and what his training goals are, making it effectively impossible to give him appropriate training advice.


Hi scourge,

Currently doing a routine suggested by Narc in this thread:

http://www.iron-city.net/showthread.php?t=1883

Although, I’ve changed some of the exercises and sets/reps to suit my needs.

Goals are to get bigger, stronger & more flexible.

[Tricky]

I am very open minded, so I’ll give it a shot once I’ve checked the exercises out properly. I also like tricky’s suggestion, since I’ve never done roll outs or good mornings before. Can’t do hypers though, since I haven’t got the bench to do them.

Cheers
d'you know how to do them? A Barbell is fine as a tool. I swear NOTHING, will EVER, EVER give you ad DOMS like the first time you do them....


last words on this anti-pilates/tva isolation crusade...

* I regard RA's, Obliques, Erector Spinae, Quadratus Lumborum, TVA, even Lats as all major players in spinal stability.

* you CAN'T isolate spinal stabilisers. Even if you could it would do very little good because they do not function in isolation! The spine doesnt exist in a vacum. If you have muscle imbalances you simply cannot acheive stability.

* What happened BEFORE Pilates and the focus on TVA isolation? What happened to athletes from previous generations? I dont remember them suffering because they didnt do dead bug twists.

* Ive seen the training videos of various strongmen like Sven Karlsson and Magnus Samuelsson...they do no Pilates or TVA specific excersises. They DO, do Yolk walks with 500kg. Their torso stability seems pretty ok to me.

[steve]

Like this?:

http://www.shapefit.com/abs-exercises-barbell-ab-rollouts.html


Think I might do these aswell:

http://www.shapefit.com/abs-exercises-exercise-ball-pull-ins.html

[Tricky]

Like this?:

http://www.shapefit.com/abs-exercises-barbell-ab-rollouts.html


Think I might do these aswell:

http://www.shapefit.com/abs-exercises-exercise-ball-pull-ins.html
yes, but id go untill your chest/nose is hovering 1/2" off the floor (pause is best) if you are able to. Nice and slow and controlled. The 2nd excersise wont do you no harm, but pales in comparison beside the 1st. If you do rollouts 1st, you will not be doing the ball pull ins ;)

[steve]

I don’t think I’ll be able to go down as far as that at first. How many reps/sets would you recommend I do?

[MoS2]

What're the advantages of round back GM's compared with normal GM's?

[PikeKing]

What're the advantages of round back GM's compared with normal GM's?

jesus christ!!

i think GMs are a bit of a dodgy area anyway but round back!!?

think about it

[Fred]

round back goodmornings eh

sounds like my type of exercise :cool:

[steve]

Anyone know where I can buy a cheap roman chair? Cheapest I've found so far is £99 at fitness superstore.

Thanks

[webcore]

I've been looking at that one myself. It's a decent price in comparison to others out there and Powerline stuff is good build quality.

[Tricky]

I don’t think I’ll be able to go down as far as that at first. How many reps/sets would you recommend I do?
try and increase as you get stronger. I do 2x8 personally...

[Tricky]

What're the advantages of round back GM's compared with normal GM's?

Recruits your lumbar erectors in flexion.

jesus christ!!

i think GMs are a bit of a dodgy area anyway but round back!!?

think about it

I absolutely advocate round back lifting. ABSOLUTELY. Obviously not as an ME excersise, I'm talking pre-hab here. For the following reasons:

1. Erectors work hardest when transferring spinal segments from flexion back to neutral or extension. Round back GM's or Hypers bullet proof your lumbar erectors.

2. Lumbar regions tend to be damaged when lifting heavy and slipping out of neutral or lordodtic spine, e.g at the bottom of a sq, or mid point of a Conv DL. I think if you NEVER do any roundback lifting it leaves you unprepared for this. If you have strengthened the muscules to be used to being in the position, even with a vastly reduced load, it stands to reason you are less likely to suffer.

3. They make my back feel better. :016:

P.S we're talking light loads here, recently ive done 15/10 on round Hypers and 60/10 on round GM's and my sq and pull are both 200+

[MoS2]

jesus christ!!

i think GMs are a bit of a dodgy area anyway but round back!!?

think about it
Ha ha I won't be doing them soon, just wondering why Tricky likes them.

[PikeKing]

lift with a rounded back at your own risk, its your call, i would never recommend anyone to lift with a rounded back, its your body etc... i dont argue on the internet anymore, i cant be arsed