Thoughts, questions and deliberations on roundback deadlifting

[Narc]

Basically, i've been thinking lately about giving up deadlifting, because i can't do it safely, or can i, this is what i can't decide. From reading this http://www.elitefts.com/documents/deadlift_with_style.htm i reckon he's absolutely right about lower back fatigue of lifters with my DL style, i always come to a stop above the knee on ME pulls despite the fact i have relatively high lockout strength and it always feels like my lower back that's had enough. Now i'm always going to be a high hip roundback deadlifter to some degree, that's just what best suits my leverages, the question is can i reduce this rounding to an acceptable level? Obviously the answer to this depends on whether you consider any rounding aceptable, but it seems fairly widely agreed that thoracic spine rounding IS acceptable/relatively safe, whereas lumbar rounding is not. So then you have to ascertain where the cut off point between lumbar and thoracic is...

http://www.karen-grace.com/images/spine.gif

...and decide what is actualy skeletal spine rouding and what is just protruding erectors, here is a comparison between an old DL of mine and Konstantinov's recent 430...

http://f5.putfile.com/5/12406155977.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)


http://f5.putfile.com/5/12406173634.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

Now i'm obviously rounding more, but am i rounding lumbar? and if i am how much? Does lumbar end where i've drawn this line....

http://f5.putfile.com/5/12406221226.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

Thoughts people?

[PikeKing]

i would say thats still lumbar, most spinal injuries occur at L3-L4, L4-L5.

you know what i think about round back lifting and at the moment with my back the way it is i dont feel i can offer any more advice as i clearly dont know what the **** i'm on about

[Narc]

Just having a prod and a feel, my lat insertion (which you can just see through my tee shirt in that pic) seems to be around the same height as my 1st or 2nd rib, looking at that spinal diagram L1/T12 seems to be around the 2nd rib, so it's got to be close, i'd say i'm fairly certainly not rounding L3 or below?

[PikeKing]

you are definately rounding your LSpine, no doubt

[Narc]

KK, do you think Konstantinov is?

[the block]

no expert - but it doesnt look pretty. having said that strongmen lift loads with rounded backs.

[PikeKing]

yes

[Narc]

Really? It looks flat to me until T10/11 ish

[PikeKing]

youre blind

also deaf

[Narc]

In that case i've more to worry about than my roundbacking then i guess.... lol

[Robert]

Try loading an atlas stone with ****ing lordosis. You know my thoughts on Round Back lifitng (i.e. stupid and gay unless you're doing it on purpose, like zercher DLs or GMs etc) but if you ahve the strength and the conditon, then it's OK. Thing is, you don't.

[PikeKing]

you jabbing at me again Robert?

round is just bad, no matter what condition you're in, does that mean I have never done in a sport situation? no it doesnt, but thats not through choice, its because it is physically impossible whethers its stones, sandbags grappling whatever.

if someone doesnt need to do it and they do it by choice, they deserve everything they get.

[Robert]

**** no1

I am trying to get Tim to stop rationalising round back pulling.

And what do you mean "again", laddy!"£$%^&^%

:kinky:

[Tricky]

Im not gonna get into the whole "is roundbacking crippling" debate, to be completely honest I suspect is has a lot to do with your genetic makeup. E.g. some people have nervous pain receptors very close to their discs (there are no actual pain receptors ON dics). The slightest bulge or movement may cause these people pain. Others may get away with huge posterior disc movement and never even know about it cos their receptors are further away.

Id say you were rounding all thoracic, most cervical and at least L1+L2, prolly L3.

Here is what your pics reminded me off as soon as i saw it:

Here is a pic of me DL'ing recently
http://f5.putfile.com/5/12414383871.jpg

Here is a pic of a chickens egg
http://invsee.asu.edu/ImageGallery/Real/LifeSciences/Photo/chickegg.jpg


Oh yeah, do you do any Ab work? If not why the **** are you thinking of giving up pulling before trying shitloads of that instead.

[PikeKing]

**** no1

I am trying to get Tim to stop rationalising round back pulling.

And what do you mean "again", laddy!"£$%^&^%

:kinky:

ok good, didnt want be told off again for being

plus i wanted to be whipped

[PikeKing]

i think pretty much all of the LSpine is flexed to a degree there, think of where the sacrum is and remember the "normal" (whatever the **** that is) curl of the LSpine

[Narc]

Right, i think i will probably knock deadlifting on the head. I just can't be arsed with it really

[the block]

not to encourage you but i have taken a similar decision for the time being. mostly because it really ****s up my back and also because i have yet to meet someone who can check my form for me and give me some pointers. bit of a shame really. but at the end of the day, it's not the end all of training.

[Narc]

Yeah, i really think i can do without them, the risks far outweigh the benefits, it's not like i'm a competing PL, and i can rack pull with perfect form so i may aswell just do that i think...

[Narc]

I should of course warn everyone, that naturally i will now be mounting my high horse and berating the deadlift form of each and every one of you :044: :kinky:

[Tricky]

i think pretty much all of the LSpine is flexed to a degree there, think of where the sacrum is and remember the "normal" (whatever the **** that is) curl of the LSpine
agree actually. Natural curve of lumbar spine would mean that at least L2-L5 are all to the anterior of at least the top half of the sacrum.

[GoldenArrow]

Devils advocate: if it's not in its normal position (arched) does that mean it's flexed?